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Wireless G303 Incoming?

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a_ak57

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Based on a couple posts from reddit, looks like Logitech may be bringing back the G302/G303 in wireless form. From this thread, seems the Logitech twitter has been liking some tweets asking for a wireless G303:


Image



There was also an image of a G303 without a cable on one of logitech's product pages, but it turned out that it was an old picture (though it does look like it has the modern Logitech Logo).
 
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#5 ·
Problem with wireless mice (even the Logitech ones wich are amazing tbh) is when you use them on a 240hz monitor. I can feel how less smooth it is compared to wired. Can´t notice the same thing on a 144hz monitor tho.
 
#8 ·
JackCY said:
One of the worst mouse shapes ever? Why?

Just buy a G305, same shape but without the annoying edges.
Click to expand...
It's almost as if some people prefer one shape over another. Truly a wacky thought to process.

I've been using the g305 shape since the original GPro was released. It's fine - but I still prefer the G303. Not to mention the clicks on R/LMB felt way better.
 
#9 ·
JackCY said:
One of the worst mouse shapes ever? Why?

Just buy a G305, same shape but without the annoying edges.
Click to expand...
The shape of the G305 is horrendously bad in my view, weird bubble edges that you can't hold onto. Awful.
G100s was far better.

I love the G303, one of the best shapes for me. Mained it since it came out, only switched to GPro Wireless because its sensor is properly compatible with my favourite mousepad (Artisan Raiden).

I would buy a wireless G303 in a heartbeat.
 
#10 ·
Notty said:
Problem with wireless mice (even the Logitech ones wich are amazing tbh) is when you use them on a 240hz monitor. I can feel how less smooth it is compared to wired. Can´t notice the same thing on a 144hz monitor tho.
Click to expand...
Image
 
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#12 · (Edited)
I wonder if there's really demand for the G303 beyond mostly enthusiasts. G302/G303's were like 75% off and still didn't seem to sell very well.

On the smoothness, I can see a very minor difference at 240hz when using Logitech Lightspeed wireless. I'm not sure what the cause is, but it reminds me of how a Zowie 3310 sensor appears. However, it's so minuscule I don't see it effecting game performance anyway.
 
#13 ·
cdcd said:
Image
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting the difference Notty is feeling comes from the fact that wireless Logitech mice manage the updates in such a way that some are done at 500 Hz instead of 1000 Hz?
 
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#14 ·
ToTheSun! said:
Are you suggesting the difference Notty is feeling comes from the fact that wireless Logitech mice manage the updates in such a way that some are done at 500 Hz instead of 1000 Hz?
Click to expand...
It might be a reason contributing to that impression. In wireless mode Logitech mice skip a report roughly every 1000 ms for whatever reason.
 
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#15 · (Edited)
cdcd said:
It might be a reason contributing to that impression. In wireless mode Logitech mice skip a report roughly every 1000 ms for whatever reason.
Click to expand...
According to your graph, it's 100 ms, not 1000.

So, we can say that Logitech mice skip around 10 updates in a total of 1000. And we can say that, for only those 10 missed updates, we're incurring a 1ms latency. And we can say in 1% of the updates we're experiencing a singular instance of a hypothetical average frequency that would still be more than twice that of a monitor whose refresh rate is WELL BEYOND the threshold that a lot of people would consider minimal or no gains in perceived smoothness.

Add to all of the above that some pros play at the highest levels with mice set to 500 Hz, and I'm confident when I say that it's impossible that whatever Notty is feeling is due to those missed updates.
 
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#16 ·
ToTheSun! said:
According to your graph, it's 100 ms, not 1000.

So, we can say that Logitech mice skip around 10 updates in a total of 1000. And we can say that, for only those 10 missed updates, we're incurring a 1ms latency. And we can say in 1% of the updates we're experiencing a singular instance of a hypothetical average frequency that would still be more than twice that of a monitor whose refresh rate is WELL BEYOND the threshold that a lot of people would consider minimal or no gains in perceived smoothness.

Add to all of the above that some pros play at the highest levels with mice set to 500 Hz, and I'm confident when I say that it's impossible that whatever Notty is feeling is due to those missed updates.
Click to expand...
Having a skipped poll every 100ms can introduce beat-frequency stutter effects, which will be more pronounced and easier to notice at higher refresh rates, especially when the framerate is high too. See BlurBusters for more on this topic. Furthermore on Logitech mice the MCU requests motion data exactly in sync with every USB poll, which may result in said effect being even more pronounced.

In general, the higher the refresh rate of the monitor, the more pronounced the perceived effects of lower report rate on smoothness during rotation become. My monitor only goes up to 165Hz and I can already tell that at 400+ FPS rotation isn't as smooth at 500Hz polling rate compared to 1000Hz, so I imagine whatever effect the skipped polls on wireless has to be more pronounced on 240Hz. Either way, it's at least a possible explanation given everything else being equal.
 
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#17 ·
cdcd said:
Having a skipped poll every 100ms can introduce beat-frequency stutter effects, which will be more pronounced and easier to notice at higher refresh rates, especially when the framerate is high too. See BlurBusters for more on this topic. Furthermore on Logitech mice the MCU requests motion data exactly in sync with every USB poll, which may result in said effect being even more pronounced.

In general, the higher the refresh rate of the monitor, the more pronounced the perceived effects of lower report rate on smoothness during rotation become. My monitor only goes up to 165Hz and I can already tell that at 400+ FPS rotation isn't as smooth at 500Hz polling rate compared to 1000Hz, so I imagine whatever effect the skipped polls on wireless has to be more pronounced on 240Hz. Either way, it's at least a possible explanation given everything else being equal.
Click to expand...
It's much more likely that wireless interference can make mouse movement feel "wonky".
 
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#18 ·
ToTheSun! said:
It's much more likely that wireless interference can make mouse movement feel "wonky".
Click to expand...
Wireless interference would only be a possible explanation if it affects polling, as what Notty is noticing is only apparent at higher refresh rates. Wireless interference 'in general' would be noticeable no matter the refresh rate.
 
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#19 ·
cdcd said:
Wireless interference would only be a possible explanation if it affects polling, as what Notty is noticing is only apparent at higher refresh rates. Wireless interference 'in general' would be noticeable no matter the refresh rate.
Click to expand...
That's true, but I'll believe anything at all to be the most likely cause of his perception before I'll even consider that he's truly discerning the 500 Hz drops that occur every 100 ms.
 
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#20 ·
ToTheSun! said:
That's true, but I'll believe anything at all to be the most likely cause of his perception before I'll even consider that he's truly discerning the 500 Hz drops that occur every 100 ms.
Click to expand...
I have no idea what it is, but I can assure that at 240hz I clearly notice big difference in pointer smoothness, even on windows desktop, when I use wireless Logitech mice, compared to their wired counterparts. Is like on wireless it skips some mouse pointers when you move it. While with the wired one I feel the "connected feel" all the time, continuous smooth image.

I also notice it in games, like a little (tiny in fact) stuttery movement when looking around or on fast flicks. Doesn´t happen with the wired counterpart.

At 144hz I can´t notice any difference at all. This only happens at 240hz.

Altho I love the fact I don´t have to deal with cables, I don´t like this wireless mice behaviour on 240hz and it prevented me from investing on more wireless mice (wanted to take a look at the G502 wireless). I will sell my wireless mice and stick to wired.

Nothing against the technology, but it is not the same as wired, at all. If you use 144hz/165hz ignore everything I said, I doubt you will notice it, at least I didn´t and I did a lot of tests.
 
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