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AOC Q3279VWFD8 31.5" IPS 2560x1440px@75Hz + Adaptive sync

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Discussion starter · #121 ·
dmr2 said:
Why is it in this last CRU ss H rate 124-124kHz?
Click to expand...
Because if I didn't set the 124/310 limits MadVR would show in identification 1080p instead of 1440p, cosmetic issue. My guess is MadVR tries to calculate/check somehow if the resolution fits into these limits and if not then shows a lower resolution (76Hz is over 300MHz by a tiny bit). I found no other impact.
There is no change in the detailed settings other than 76.1Hz. I think 76.4Hz gave me a corrupted output at one occasion, sort of left half was OK but right was "shifted" lower with the top corrupted on it, or it was slightly higher than 76.4.
The monitor reports as 76Hz by default anyway, in MadVR and in the sync range, but the default 1440p profile is set to 75Hz as that's "standard". I think Async doesn't work in full 76Hz range unless you up the 1440p profile from 75 to 76Hz, it goes only as high as the resolution profile is set, so if you set 72Hz refresh and Async range 76Hz (default) it would only sync to 72Hz and then tear. Async max range = probably useless and only lower range is used at least by NV driver.

I have some older color profile you posted here "aoc-4dec-i1d2-basicc.icm" and those two different ReShade LUTs. But don't know with what preset are these supposed to be used. Plus what does your monitor default to and did you need to make any changes? Mine is fairly 6500K gamma 2.2 by default so I run full default warm=50/50/50 colors and default gamma 1. If yours needs different settings by a lot to get to 6500K 2.2 then it will definitely look worse with this color profile on mine.

sRGB preset on mine does this: broken gradient in blacks with black crush and color balance of mid tones is more yellowish/greenish while peak colors are untouched, when in fact what sRGB preset should do is limit the peak colors from wider gamut to sRGB as well but it doesn't do that, as such the profile overall does more harm than good.

Gamer 1,2,3 and OFF presets are where I have my brightness settings, 5 (almost never use this, lets say night reading bright pages), 15 web especially evening, 40 most games and movies also day time reading, 90 bright content/day/some games (Witness looks great at max brightness since it's a bright colorful game but it's gonna burn your eyes out at evening/night). Easy to switch. Of course I suppose people may use some DDC/CI apps that can automate some of this.

iakoboss7 said:
yeah, same question.

also jackcy can you show us your "detailed resolution" on your 76.100hz profile?


also AMD driver (when creating a custom resolution profile) suggests positive polarity on both options, but CRU suggests what you have. why? what is the correct one?
Click to expand...
As far as I read and can understand it's again a remnant from CRT era, as such it is ignored by LCD monitors. It was meant for CRT to prevent degradation, it would switch positive/negative voltage instead of staying one way only. (DC vs AC)
They add information to the monitor EDID specification over time as necessary and old stuff gets left there. There is also DisplayID, no idea if this monitor has it or how well it's supported by hardware and software yet. CRU has some basic blocks from DisplayID since v1.4.

I've tried to make the custom resolutions before via GPU drivers but it's not always available in them, it doesn't always work, once switched and not working it can be hard to switch back. I would rather use CRU and it's restart/reset apps as you can more easily recover especially if you plan to use it a lot you could bind a reset app to a hotkey, making it trivial to recover. With restart app open you can press F8 when the app is in focus, which is fine for me.

Compared to older TNs, yes the monitor has well saturated. Even compared to LG 32GK850G modern VA the colors and saturation overall are better as the VA drops saturation at viewing angles hard and it's not wider gamut either. Samsung VAs with QDs tend to have "electric" colors to me, too wide and a bit odd, the peak red really "burned eyes" on those. Don't know how Innolux 1440p 144Hz is with wider gamut, such as the overpriced Aorus monitor, it depends a lot not on panel but on the backlight used as to how wide gamut and colors will look.

You can of course limit gamut down to sRGB with software calibration if you want to, but it's not a solution that works 100% always and everywhere :/ Color management aware apps, game engines ignoring or overwriting the "curves", ...
I still think that if one needs to have a color accurate monitor the best option is to get one with hardware calibration and avoid this software calibration altogether.

I also always use 10bit which should have higher bandwidth demands, but I've yet to see any difference from 8bit in MadVR or any games.
 

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#123 ·
JackCY said:
I have some older color profile you posted here "aoc-4dec-i1d2-basicc.icm" and those two different ReShade LUTs. But don't know with what preset are these supposed to be used. Plus what does your monitor default to and did you need to make any changes? Mine is fairly 6500K gamma 2.2 by default so I run full default warm=50/50/50 colors and default gamma 1. If yours needs different settings by a lot to get to 6500K 2.2 then it will definitely look worse with this color profile on mine.
Click to expand...
Try one of these with sRGB color space and lower brightness with ClickMonitorDDC https://ufile.io/ij7l69ay
 
Discussion starter · #124 ·
@iakoboss7 you don't need to worry about the MadVR identification I think. I've removed every other resolution and audio entry in CRU and have the same frequencies set.
@dmr2 there are 5 profiles and hard to tell and figure out which profile was made for what settings and what it wants to achieve.

Trying "AOC snativesRGBgamma.icm" and while I can get it working via DisplayProfile app (with regular Windows color management app I would have to restart I guess to get the profile to apply and show), I see no reason on my unit to use sRGB in monitor preset and from what I've read even on other units as all this preset does is ruin gamma tracking and doesn't limit colors down to sRGB anyway. With this profile "AOC snativesRGBgamma.icm" and sRGB in monitor preset all that happens is that it looks almost same as native uncalibrated with in monitor user 50/50/50 = warm preset, with same peak red/green/blue (no gamut change), only whites are now yellower and darks bluer (gray colors) that I could spot on one photo and my picture viewer, other photo showed certain reddish-blue artifact to be less red and that was about it. So mostly this profile to me on my unit tries to fight and correct in software the gamma tracking mistake caused by in monitor sRGB preset, changing a little color temperature of gray colors to appear colder/bluer overall. Actually let me rephrase that, after checking gradient, it FAILS to correct the gradient smoothness issue caused by sRGB in monitor preset, it still crushes blacks and ruins gradients, on top of that it adds colored tints to the gradient at different gray levels, such as green around mid point 128.

Not worth bothering with these color calibrations especially when doing them for using the broken in monitor sRGB preset.

If you must calibrate, use gamma 1 (or which ever is closest to 2.2 on your unit), use user colors in monitor preset and adjust them as instructed by calibration software, then run a calibration to create necessary color management profiles, ramps and what not. This way at least you won't have the broken gradients.

Some monitors/units, granted, do benefit from using software calibration because their defaults (the hardware calibration done by manufacturer) is very bad but those units at best should be returned when purchased (excessive yellow tint on AUO M270DAN2.x, or often one side yellow other side blue = can't calibrate that out no matter how much you will try, or the "occasional" miscalibration of some channel such as one of the C27HG70 I had where blue channel gamma was widely different than all other causing whole display to go yellowish).

Even when the software calibration is done right, it will always cause visible issues on 8bit output :/
 
#125 · (Edited)
Hmm you doing something wrong. Make sure that in color management is enabled use windows display calibration. Also use small program LUT manager to see that calibration profile is loaded, if not go to reset and load default in LUT manager




Also color space is reduced to sRGB, you can see here and in games or anywhere, there is no oversaturated colors.

Color space before


color space after
 
Discussion starter · #126 ·
Well on my unit sRGB preset doesn't limit gamut for sure and the ICC profile did neither, ICC was 100% active the change was very obvious when ICC activates. It was visibly active in Windows in all apps open: FastStone image viewer, Photoshop, MadVR. The ICC profile did "fix" gamma back to 2.2, or at least it was brighter I didn't check if it was super correct to 2.2, but gradient was garbage and all other issues/tints/changes as mentioned above done by the ICC.

As always ICC profiles are not really transferable between units of same monitor, it's rare to get two copies that are nearly identical.

I see no change in peak red/green/blue colors with sRGB preset on/off and with ICC profile on/off. They stay the same.
 
Discussion starter · #128 ·
I did but the changes to colors were minimal, I had to hunt down over a folder of various photos to track down the differences. I checked profiles in ICC profile viewers to see what's in there, I verified gamma ramps are applied, etc. Images with a colored scene didn't look less saturated, neither did peak colors, which is what I would expect from reducing the gamut down to sRGB.

Maybe your in monitor sRGB preset does the necessary desaturation/limiting, mine doesn't.
 
#130 ·
Hi all

I just got this monitor yesterday, on mine i have set freesync range to 38-76 (didn't touch any other settings in cru) and it works well within, at 37 i get screen flashes etc. I don't think that lmc works...any help on how i'm supposed to figure it out?

I noticed the black crush you are mentioning, at default settings. I've just set shadow detail or something like that i cant remember now (not at home atm), in osd game menu from 50 to 60 and it looks good to me.

What's the deal with MADVR? does it utilize freesync?

Thanks
 
Discussion starter · #132 ·
dmr2 said:
You can see here that sRGB emulation does restrict color space, under color reproduction chapter. https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/aoc-q3279vwfd8/

Do you notice changing in color space on this video? Because sRGB emulation does same thing
https://youtu.be/MBT5sA-rR2g


EDIT:Here I take a picture of the screen in sRGB and native. Can you see the difference?

Click to expand...
I can see the difference yes and know that in review it was measured restricted with sRGB in monitor preset active. On my particular unit, no matter what picture is shown even your pumpkin head king or what it is, I see no color restriction when sRGB preset is activated compared to warm = user 50/50/50. If anything in sRGB preset it looks more saturated due to black crush and the gamma tracking of sRGB preset being darker overall (2.3 or 2.25). (You know that thing where if you darken colors they look more saturated and brightened they look desaturated.)

I saw the video before, I can see the change there yes. I know what it's supposed to do but never saw it do it.

I would love to measure it but I don't plan on buying the calibrator as I have little to no use for it. Maybe my unit is not as wide gamut so there is nothing to restrict, who knows. Looks fine to me on warm=user 50/50/50 preset and that's good for me. I don't notice any weird tints (AG322QCX had that, lobster people) or burning peak red/green colors (C27HG70, QD backlight).

Would say it's wider than sRGB but not by much. Other monitors that I've had that offered sRGB emulation often turned desaturated useless garbage with their bad sRGB emulation presets cutting it probably too much.

BoltGR said:
Hi all

I just got this monitor yesterday, on mine i have set freesync range to 38-76 (didn't touch any other settings in cru) and it works well within, at 37 i get screen flashes etc. I don't think that lmc works...any help on how i'm supposed to figure it out?

I noticed the black crush you are mentioning, at default settings. I've just set shadow detail or something like that i cant remember now (not at home atm), in osd game menu from 50 to 60 and it looks good to me.

What's the deal with MADVR? does it utilize freesync?

Thanks
Click to expand...
Do not change shadow control or game color in OSD from default 50, 10 values or you get "mangled/bad" image.
Each unit can be calibrated a bit different as any monitor I've seen. You should not have any issue with blacks or whites on the default warm or user presets as long as you keep rest of OSD at defaults such as the shadow control and game color.
Gamma... well I use gamma 1 which is default and that is 2.2 on all color channels in all lagom pattern brightness levels. If your unit doesn't show nice smooth and 2.2 gamma at gamma 1 setting, try gamma 2 and gamma 3 settings but those only make things worse on my unit, one changes to brighter gamma another to darker and they don't always have same gamma value at all shown color brightness levels either, I would have to check but you get what I mean, they are not terrible but also not super accurate (as in I've seen way worse on monitors).

sRGB profile at least on my unit doesn't restrict gamut and the blacks looks similar to gamma 3 setting = crushed blacks.

LFC on Nvidia activates automatically when you get below max_refresh/2.
You have to set the lower VRR range to a value that works for your monitor (and maybe even GPU, who knows), for me I can set 38Hz and get no flickers but below 38 I do get flickers, so with 38-76 and 76 refresh (or 76.1 now) it runs 38-76Hz VRR and 1-38Hz LFC (or as low as Nvidia bothers to multiply the refresh as 37 = 74, and so on, 30 = 60, 19 = 38 or 57, 18 should = 54, ...).

MadVR and other apps vs VRR... I've limited or no success with getting NVCP to behave consistently, right now if I set desktop apps to fixed refresh and close NVCP, launch the app, close it, open NVCP... NVCP shows again Gsync compatible on that app... yet I don't notice any more refresh fluctuation in video player with MadVR, seems locked to fixed refresh... go figure really. At the beginning yes MadVR was running in VRR and dropping refresh to weird values of 69, 71 etc. and sometimes showing frame skip/repeat hence I tried to set it fixed refresh. Maybe something updated somewhere in Windows again, who knows, but it seems to work fixed refresh now in desktop apps. Windowed+Fullscreen VRR enabled, otherwise Windowed Borderless games won't run in VRR, yeah some games are stupid and fake fullscreen by running borderless.
 
#133 ·
Thank you for your replies,

JackCY,

I will follow your suggestions about user preset.
As for LFC what i meant was that i don't really know what it is supposed to be doing and how to check it out.
For example with max_refresh/2 range, lets say i set pendulum demo to 20 fps, is it supposed to look as smooth as it is when in the freesync range?
Btw, my Gpu is Rtx 2060 (msi ventus).
 
Discussion starter · #134 ·
VRR/FreeSync (NV GPU):
70fps = 70Hz the artifacting from OD behind Pendulum's white bar on gray background is small, mostly white blur.
40fps = 40Hz (most units can probably achieve this over the default minimum 48hz) the artifacting is more visible as OD is a bit too aggressive (I use weak OD).
35fps = GPU will double it to 70fps = 70Hz the artifacting will look the same as above 70fps = 70Hz, the only difference now is that each frame is doubled so the trailing/blur from sample and hold will be bigger (a little probably).
20fps = I would have to check if it looks more close to 40Hz or 60Hz, it's up to the driver really.
There is no in monitor OSD refresh number display as some "gaming" monitors have that can make checking the precise refresh in VRR mode easier.
None will have tearing nor should they stutter. If you go above your max refresh then you will get tearing.

Some games can limit their fps well, I use 74fps in one, other need lower limit such as 73, 72 if their output varies a lot.

Modern games tend to use Windowed Fullscreen but some may use Windowed Borderless = looks the same but you will get Vsynced from Windows... = input lag from Vsync, some games also have Vsync enabled in them by default and you get double Vsync input lag, The Witness does this LOL. So you have to enable Windowed mode VRR in GPU driver and limit ingame FPS somehow to stay in VRR range while disabling any Vsync in the game you can find if it even works at that point anyway.

https://testimages.org/ has good gradient pictures, gray and color ones. It also has a ton of patterns, including fine patterns that will make any monitor buzz (some patterns tend to match the LCD's inversion).
As for white and black clipping many pictures around and apps that can show you. I usually use the standalone eizo monitor app and one of it's adjustable patterns. Or you can generate/draw a simple file with the peak colors to check for clipping.

The below image has 0, 1, 2 blacks for example and they are all visible, not easily for RGB 1,1,1 even at max brightness but it's there on my unit and isn't clipped at default contrast 50.

My settings:
Contrast 50, default
Brightness to situation 15, 36, 68, 90
Eco mode standard, all that does is block and set brightness
Gamma 1, results in gamma 2.2 on my unit
DCR Off, dynamic contrast aka dynamic global backlight level adjustment, talked about it before, don't remember much anymore, do not use it myself as it always has a mind of it's own
Color Temp. Warm which on my unit is same as User 50/50/50 and is around 6500K
DCB nonsense all Off
Picture boost Off, some gamery nonsense to alter look of a rectangular part of image
Timeout 120
DP 1.2
Hpos 50
Vpos 0
Transparence 25
Break reminder Off
Game Mode 1,2,3,Off is where I set my brightness levels for easy switching
Shadow Control 50, default
Game Color 10, default
LBL Off
Overdrive Weak
Input DP
Off Timer 00
DDC/CI Yes, but I don't use it anyway
Reset No, if you set this to Yes it will reset all settings
Volume 0, I don't remember there being spearkers so it's a volume of the integrated headphone out that you can feed audio into over HDMI/DP, probably has quality of a potato.

CRU range limits 38-76Hz, some units may only do 39 or 40 on the minimum, older NV driver I could do 36 as it doubled on 38 with 36 set, newer driver doesn't seem to have this 2Hz offset anymore.
76Hz max refresh is fine, around 76.5Hz you're gonna start seeing issues and close to 77Hz it will spit at you "input not supported message".
I've deleted all other resolution entries and audio entries in CRU, most apps see those on their own anyway.
 

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#136 ·
Jack,

I created a custom resolution in CRU, same as you posted (76.100 hz).
LFC doesn't seem to work for me,but as i said I've never seen it before, thus i don't have a point of reference to compare.
I tried different freesync ranges 39-76, 38-76, 37-75,30-75,39-78, maybe some others that i don't remember now, pendulum always stutters when fps is below the range...

I noticed that if i set the range's minimum at 37 and below, when at exactly 37hz the screen goes black for a sec, comes back, and so on. 38 min range and up, it's all good.
I'm running with the latest nvidia driver 430.64...
I will try to make a 72hz custom resolution and set freesync to 36-72 to see what happens :D

Thanks for your very thorough replies.
 
Discussion starter · #137 ·
You then need to set 38 as minimum if anything below flickers. Doesn't matter if you have default 48-76Hz range (75Hz refresh) it still LFCs at least for me on NV, it would then be tear free 1-37Hz, tear on 38-48Hz and then again tear free 48-75Hz.
The upper range limit in CRU seems to be ignored by NV driver, only minimum really matters, at least with my HW and drivers, the upper limit gets taken from fixed refresh rate.

With smooth motion in MadVR I don't see the reason to bother with precise multiples of movie refresh rates and deal with the endless refresh rate switches. If MadVR was smart it would detect that VRR is available and output at precise multiple but it's not.

LFC = no tearing at fps below VRR range. It multiplies the fps to be higher, double, triple,... duplicate frames so it stays within VRR range.
 
#138 ·
Is it up to me or... I think that when the monitor is on 60Hz desktop icons and text are sharper then on 75Hz, also when I little overclock monitor to 76,9Hz it is less sharper than on 75Hz. Is this just placebo or what? :D
 
Discussion starter · #139 ·
I believe I've checked that before and there was no difference in image processing at different refresh rates. I see no issue sharpness wise on 75Hz or now 76.1Hz (just checked to be sure). Near perfect neutral sharpness = untouched input image and near perfect 2.2 gamma.

Often VRR syncs properly now again at least when I keep moving the mouse while Windows is coming out of sleep, if I only tap a key to wake it up I suspect it may not sync correctly. Still on 419.67 driver, Win1809. Win1903 should have again more updates to WDDM, although I don't see any relevant changes to sync in it, yet.
 
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