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Wolverine2349

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
*Using Core i9 13900K with e-cores disabled and all P cores clock at 5.6GHz with VCORE static set to 1.35 at LLC 6 on an MSI Z690 MEG Unify X motherboard.



*Using a Noctua NH-D15S CPU cooler with 2 140mm fans running at 1000 RPM each and Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut paste and also the Thermalright LGA 1700 BCF frame



*Using Be Quiet Silent Base 802 case with 3 140mm Silent Wings 3 intake fans all at 1000 RPM and 1 rear exhaust Silent Wings 3 140mm 1000 RPM fan (Using mesh front panel with dust filter removed for better air flow though have top with seal panel on as no fans up there and want to dampen weird noise such as mild coil whine and such)



Now when running Cinebench R23 full load, temps hit 90C and average 90C and only go as low as 89C and peak as high as 93C and sometimes 94C which is very disappointing as Cinebench R23 is supposed to be more realistic all core workload. This is in an ambient room of 19C which is around 67F.



My case is as clean as can be with only RTX 4090 Gaming OC and CPU cooler and CPU. No HDDs nor SSDs in main area and only 2 M.2 SSDs of course in the mobo and only 2 SATA SSDs on back of case so not in way at all of air flow.



I would like to lower them around 10C staying on air cooling with 1000 RPM fans during Cinebench type run at my settings



Would it be possible to change air coolers or thermal paste and lower the temps. Would the Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4 be a better fit for my config. I know research suggests almost no temp difference between Dark Rock Pro 4 and NH-D15S. However does the Dark Rock Pro 4 or maybe Assassin 3 have a better cold plate for better contact with LGA 1700 socket using the Thermalright LGA 1700 BFC frame?? Or no difference??



Or is there just no way to cool these things any better on air and they run hot no way around it at mid 5.X GHz speeds even with e-cores off. I would have thought with the superior binning and refinements from Raptor Lake that running those extra speeds would take same power as Alder Lake and same tempos. But no it seems to just run hot hot hot.



I can only imagine when summer comes and my AC keeps my room at 21C at best and even tougher to cool.



The P Out value goes to like 190 watts during Cinebench R23 run and CPU package power goes to like 195 to 210 watts. I would have thought with the larger heat spreader on LGA 1700 and cooling capacity of 250 watts for NH-D15S (2 fans and only using S version for better PCIE GOU clearance) and Dark Rock Pro 4 temps would be low 80s
 
I'd say that's pretty good as far as air cooled temps. If you're sights are set on air cooling the only thing to do to get temps you want is to delid and mount the cooler directly to the CPU die.

Otherwise liquid metal TIM and/or 3000RPM industrial fans all around (case and heatsink). Ear protection highly recommended :D
 
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Discussion starter · #3 ·
I'd say that's pretty good as far as air cooled temps. If you're sights are set on air cooling the only thing to do to get temps you want is to delid and mount the cooler directly to the CPU die.

Otherwise liquid metal TIM and/or 3000RPM industrial fans all around (case and heatsink). Ear protection highly recommended :D

Is there just no way around it, On air cooling Intel Raptor Lake and AMD Zen 4, CPUs are going to run hot all core load if you have 8 or more cores at the speeds they can achieve.

And how can I do a delid on air cooling. DO they even have kits. I have only seen delidding kits for water cooling blocks and such.
 
Is there just no way around it, On air cooling Intel Raptor Lake and AMD Zen 4, CPUs are going to run hot all core load if you have 8 or more cores at the speeds they can achieve.

And how can I do a delid on air cooling. DO they even have kits. I have only seen delidding kits for water cooling blocks and such.
The retention hardware will have to be a little DIY to make up for the loss of the IHS (the CPU will be about 1-2mm shorter). Air coolers are heavy and need a lot of tension so unless you can find a direct die mounting bracket to protect the CPU from cracking it's not recommended. Waterblocks are easier as they don't need nearly as much tension.
 
you can delid and keep the IHS, you don't have to go direct die.

 
The FC140 is only $50 with coupon so it might be worth a try. But you will need 1700 kit for it. I recently switched from the NH-D15s to a Thermalright FC140 and my temps dropped 3-5c. However your 13900k creates a lot more heat than my 5800x does. So your results might be different or it might be worse.

I used the same fans and same KPX paste for both coolers.
 
Your brain is dead.
 
Since you have an MSI mobo, give a shot to the following,

 
Running Cinebench at 90c with fans at 1000rpm is very good!
Top fan is likely not helping. Move it to front so front is full of intake fans.
3x 140mm front intakes will flow more air into case than D15 will flow at same speed.
I would increase D15 fan speed to 1100-1200rpm.

Let us know ho this works out.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Running Cinebench at 90c with fans at 1000rpm is very good!
Top fan is likely not helping. Move it to front so front is full of intake fans.
3x 140mm front intakes will flow more air into case than D15 will flow at same speed.
I would increase D15 fan speed to 1100-1200rpm.

Let us know ho this works out.

I am going to try switching back to Phanteks Enthoo Pro II case instead of the Silent Base 802.

Its a bigger base and has a separate back PSU chamber so much more room for video card and CPU and whole case airflow to breathe.

I had switched to Silent Base 802 hoping the spund dampening would make coil whine and harmonic noises less. Of course n ot on intake and use mesh, but like the side panel foam and top foam.

I will try manually adding some to the Enthoo Pro 2 side panel and top and of course remove dust filter for best intake air flow.

And no I do not have a top fan on my Silent Base 802. Its just 1 rear exhaust as almost all cases even big ones only have 1 rear exhaust fan slot.
 
I am going to try switching back to Phanteks Enthoo Pro II case instead of the Silent Base 802.

Its a bigger base and has a separate back PSU chamber so much more room for video card and CPU and whole case airflow to breathe.

I had switched to Silent Base 802 hoping the spund dampening would make coil whine and harmonic noises less. Of course n ot on intake and use mesh, but like the side panel foam and top foam.

I will try manually adding some to the Enthoo Pro 2 side panel and top and of course remove dust filter for best intake air flow.

And no I do not have a top fan on my Silent Base 802. Its just 1 rear exhaust as almost all cases even big ones only have 1 rear exhaust fan slot.
finally! glad you are willing to try out a better air flow case . hope it helps!
 
Air cooling has its limits. Unless you can get by with less voltage, this is about the best you can do (unless you're willing to lower clocks as well as voltage).
Not necessarily... If only the Cryorig AF41 was on the LGA 1700..

Tire Automotive tire Wheel Tread Rim
 
Cryorig did AF41 for April Fools Day 2014 but there was at least one prototype AF41 built. Testing showed it the best air cooler out at the time cooling i7-4770k @ 3.9GHz at 34.25c while NH-D15 did 43c. AF41 on same CPU @ 4.2GHz was 52.25c while NH-D15 was 53.5c.
 
Discussion starter · #17 · (Edited)
finally! glad you are willing to try out a better air flow case . hope it helps!

Sadly did not help at all.

Well it has superior GPU thermals if you look at Gamers Nexus reviews, but NVIDIA cards from 3090 Ti on up despite their high power draw have excellent coolers unlike the 3090 and below so not as important. So my Gaming OC 4090 should be good in the quieter case.

I think the 13900K is just a below average dud. I mean only 8 cores and all 16 e cores off. Should not run this hot. I had thought Raptor Lake was better thermals and binning compared to Alder Lake. I mean Alder Lake 5GHz not hard to cool on dual tower air cooler with e-cores shut off. I would have thought another 600MHz on Raptor Lake with e-cores off would have been easy to cool. I mean I see people with average 280 and 360mm AIOs cooling 13900Ks with e-cores on and P cores going 5.5GHz. And those e-cores 16 of them take up so much extra power. That it lead me to believe it should be easy peasy if all of them are off at only 5.6GHz P cores.
 
Sadly did not help at all.

Well it has superior GPU thermals if you look at Gamers Nexus reviews, but NVIDIA cards from 3090 Ti on up despite their high power draw have excellent coolers unlike the 3090 and below so not as important. So my Gaming OC 4090 should be good in the quietier case.

I think the 13900K is just a below average dud. I mean only 8 cores and all 16 e cores off. Should not run this hot.
It does run this hot, and has been running this hot since Alder Lake.

You're just choosing to ignore all empirical evidence because you're some obstinate air cooler fanboy.

Upgrade to an AIO and stop hoping people have a solution to cooling this generation with air. Because there isn't one.

If Noctuas couldn't adequately cool up to 5.1-5.2 GHz on a 12900, how can you expect it to cool 5.5+ on a 13900? And this is with the E-cores off.
 
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Discussion starter · #19 ·
It does run this hot, and has been running this hot since Alder Lake.

You're just choosing to ignore all empirical evidence because you're some obstinate air cooler fanboy.

Upgrade to an AIO and stop hoping people have a solution to cooling this generation with air. Because there isn't one.

If Noctuas couldn't adequately cool up to 5.1-5.2 GHz on a 12900, how can you expect it to cool 5.5+ on a 13900? And this is with the E-cores off.

Actually my Noctua NH-D15S with 2 140mm fans and barley over 1000 RPM easily cooled a 12700K 5GHz with e-cores off and only 82-83C max in Cinebench R23.

All the reading about how Raptor Lake is superior binning and refined to allow equal clocks or a little higher made me think an extra 600MHz should have been similar especially with 16 e-cores off. But nope sadly. Well maybe and my chip is probably a below average sample. Chip quality probably has something to do with it.

I have seen people with average 280mm and 360mm cooling 13900K hitting max 88C in Cinebench with e-cores on hitting 4.4GHz and P cores 5.5GHz.

E-cores take lots of extra power (of course e-cores not as much as P cores, but there are so many more of them that it probably gets closer in power draw). And them shutting off I thought only 8 P cores would be easier to cool at 5.6GHz. I guess not at least on my chip.

But we all learn something.

I insist on air cooling for fast only 8 cores.

But if I went with more than 8 cores and wanted them fast probably no way around liquid cooling unless I decided to do much lower clocks especially on AMD.
 
Giant air coolers or 360 AIOs won't matter, Intel and AMD CPUs will hit 95C. You think that's too high don't buy or undervolt.
 
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