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So if the pastes are non-conductive, I can let the old and new paste get mixed up in the capacitors area?

And If I had just one paste on my card, I can leave it on my capacitors area, no need to clean?
Just confirm that your thermal paste is non conductive. Leaving it on the capacitors here and there won't hurt anything.

And same is true if you used Noctua NT-H2 and then switched to TG Kryonaut, just clean the GPU core/die surface as best possible and maybe gently go over the surrounding caps/bits/etc but don't feel like you've got to get every bit of old paste off of those capacitors/resistors thingy's.

~s
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
Its not electrically conductive, yes, but there is enough capacitive properties for a thermal paste like Arctic Silver to be a problem.

That said, Nvidia certainly didn't use AS5 on their 4090's, so OP has absolutely nothing to worry about. I wouldn't worry too much about left over TIM on the capacitors. You certainly don't want to knock one off if too aggressive in the cleaning.
So its safe to leave the non-conductive pastes on the capacitors whether it be a single brand, or 2 brands mixed up?
 
So its safe to leave the non-conductive pastes on the capacitors whether it be a single brand, or 2 brands mixed up?
Yes.

I use cheap kids watercolor paint brush with rubbing alcohol.
 
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Just confirm that your thermal paste is non conductive. Leaving it on the capacitors here and there won't hurt anything.

And same is true if you used Noctua NT-H2 and then switched to TG Kryonaut, just clean the GPU core/die surface as best possible and maybe gently go over the surrounding caps/bits/etc but don't feel like you've got to get every bit of old paste off of those capacitors/resistors thingy's.

~s
You do not need to confirm that your thermal paste is not conductive because conductive thermal paste does not exist.

You can mix as many different brands of thermal paste as you want, it still won't be an issue.

If thermal paste were risky to use, the application process wouldn't be so simple. Pretty much any GPU will come with the paste pushed out to the sides where it touches other components straight out of the factory.
 
You do not need to confirm that your thermal paste is not conductive because conductive thermal paste does not exist.
Tell them that...

I tried some of that Upsiren LMTG-100 on top of an IHS when doing rando bench testing and it was sketchy as hell. And now there is supposedly some other variant/knock off called LT-100 ... but not sure if those are the same products as it's different companies.

You can see the little bits of LM (or whatever they use) in the paste, like tootpaste with blue dots in it or something lol (but with shiny little LM dots).

I tested it briefly but found it not very good. After working with it, liquid metal was all over my gloves and thin streaks of LM were visible here and there on my shirt/pants.

I've done a little work with various LM's and what was left on my hands and clothing sure behaved like genuine LM to me. So, despite the claims to the contrary, I would not trust the "not electrically conductive" part of Upsiren's marketing with their LMTG-100 LM/thermal paste combo...

I did not test for electric conductivity, but all those little balls of LM floating in the paste did not boost my confidence, so I literally threw the rest away.

It also left a very clear "stain" on the CPU IHS, the same way LM might on one of my 14900Ks. I haven't lapped that particular chip, and the stain remains.

Weird material.

Anyway. Trust no one. Test everything. Have fun.

~s
 
Yes.

I use cheap kids watercolor paint brush with rubbing alcohol.
Word. Cheapo toothbrush will work well too with the same ISO method ... gentle as you go yo!

;-)

~s
 
Tell them that...

I tried some of that Upsiren LMTG-100 on top of an IHS when doing rando bench testing and it was sketchy as hell. And now there is supposedly some other variant/knock off called LT-100 ... but not sure if those are the same products as it's different companies.

You can see the little bits of LM (or whatever they use) in the paste, like tootpaste with blue dots in it or something lol (but with shiny little LM dots).

I tested it briefly but found it not very good. After working with it, liquid metal was all over my gloves and thin streaks of LM were visible here and there on my shirt/pants.

I've done a little work with various LM's and what was left on my hands and clothing sure behaved like genuine LM to me. So, despite the claims to the contrary, I would not trust the "not electrically conductive" part of Upsiren's marketing with their LMTG-100 LM/thermal paste combo...

I did not test for electric conductivity, but all those little balls of LM floating in the paste did not boost my confidence, so I literally threw the rest away.

It also left a very clear "stain" on the CPU IHS, the same way LM might on one of my 14900Ks. I haven't lapped that particular chip, and the stain remains.

Weird material.

Anyway. Trust no one. Test everything. Have fun.

~s
You are talking about liquid metal. As I already said, thermal paste is not conductive. Liquid metal is.
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
You do not need to confirm that your thermal paste is not conductive because conductive thermal paste does not exist.

You can mix as many different brands of thermal paste as you want, it still won't be an issue.

If thermal paste were risky to use, the application process wouldn't be so simple. Pretty much any GPU will come with the paste pushed out to the sides where it touches other components straight out of the factory.
So Liquid Metal is not considered a Thermal Paste?
 
conductive thermal paste does not exist.
This statement is false and potentially dangerous.

Metal doesn't need to be a liquid to conduct electricity. The particles just need to be close enough for whatever voltage they are bridging to overcome the resistance provided by the binder. It's also possible for compounds to claim significant electrical resistance while still being easily capable of inducing enough stray capacitance to be problematic. Most thermal pastes are designed to conduct heat, not electricity, but there are certainly some thermal pastes that are flatly electrically conductive, and a huge number of pastes that are either capacitive enough to cause problems, or that can be rendered conductive through degradation or incomplete cleaning.

Stuff like Aremco Heat-Away is advertised as a thermal grease, most of their their metal filled greases are designed to be highly electrically conductive and are. There are a thousand similar products, many of which make it to shops, like Amazon or AliExpress, rebranded as TIM, with little mention of how electrically conductive they are. It's often cheaper to reach a moderate level of thermal conductivity with an electrically conductive paste than with a paste with high electrical resistance. This crap is almost certainly quite electrically conductive, as is this...they are powdered copper and silicone oil.

Stuff like Arctic Silver has a high enough electrical resistance when fresh and mixed properly for them to get away with calling it non-conductive, but they still need to include the disclaimer about it's capacitance in the product description, because if you do something silly like leave it in contact with a socket or closely placed SMDs, you could cause problems.

Beyond that, essentially every TIM that relies on metallic fillers, which is a large fraction of modern high performance pastes (pretty much any thermal paste advertising much more than 10W-m/K is either carbon filled, or metallic aluminum filled), can be turned electrically conductive, if enough binder is removed while leaving the filler behind.

The OP probably doesn't need to worry. As mentioned, the stock TIM is highly unlikely to be conductive or capacitive in any way, and most of the things any rational person would replace it with, other than liquid metal, should be safe enough for the location it will be used. However, is not even close to supporting the erroneous assertion that "conductive thermal paste does not exist".

So Liquid Metal is not considered a Thermal Paste?
No, generally not.

Both are under the broad category of Thermal Interface Materials...which is anything designed or used to conduct heat from one surface to another.

The subset of TIMs referred to as thermal pastes or thermal greases means some kind of thermally conductive filler suspended in a liquid binder. Paste and grease is usually interchangable here as most use some kind of oil as the binder, but I wouldn't consider the few non-oil based pastes to be greases. Most pastes using volitile binders are generally supposed to be dispensed on to a surface and then either heat cured or allowed to sit long enough for the binder to evaporate.

There are all kind of other TIMs, from metal shims, to compressible pads/gap fillers, to putties and gels. Liquid metal is exactly what it sounds like...a liquid alloy that is itself the thermally conductive material; there is no filler and no binder, just the metal.

The Upsiren LMTG-100 stuff that @s1rrah mentions is a weird outlier. It's liquid metal blended into an oil binder...supposedly to increase the viscosity of the liquid metal and make it easier to handle, while keeping it's higher thermal conductivity. In reality this stuff seems to be the worst of both worlds, not the best.
 
So Liquid Metal is not considered a Thermal Paste?
Liquid metal is liquid. Nothing like a regular thermal paste. Liquid metal is electrically conductive. Just get some noctua h1 or arctic mx6 or thermalright tf9 paste. Safe and no worries if it gets all over components.
i use a bit of arctic mx6 to give aslight coating over the capacitors on my cpu cause inuse liquid metal on die.
 
Discussion starter · #31 · (Edited)
Tell them that...

I tried some of that Upsiren LMTG-100 on top of an IHS when doing rando bench testing and it was sketchy as hell. And now there is supposedly some other variant/knock off called LT-100 ... but not sure if those are the same products as it's different companies.

You can see the little bits of LM (or whatever they use) in the paste, like tootpaste with blue dots in it or something lol (but with shiny little LM dots).

I tested it briefly but found it not very good. After working with it, liquid metal was all over my gloves and thin streaks of LM were visible here and there on my shirt/pants.

I've done a little work with various LM's and what was left on my hands and clothing sure behaved like genuine LM to me. So, despite the claims to the contrary, I would not trust the "not electrically conductive" part of Upsiren's marketing with their LMTG-100 LM/thermal paste combo...

I did not test for electric conductivity, but all those little balls of LM floating in the paste did not boost my confidence, so I literally threw the rest away.

It also left a very clear "stain" on the CPU IHS, the same way LM might on one of my 14900Ks. I haven't lapped that particular chip, and the stain remains.

Weird material.

Anyway. Trust no one. Test everything. Have fun.

~s

So it seems that as i was cleaning the stock paste of my GPU die, I got a drop of stock paste on the lower right part of my circuit board (encircled in red below). I did my best to clean it up but its not perfectly clean.
Circuit component Passive circuit component Hardware programmer Electronic engineering Electronic component

My Card is the Asus ROG Strix Geforce RTX 4090 OC 24GB GDDR6X.
I assume stock thermal paste is non-conductive because when I first opened the GPU, I found some stock paste on the capacitors beside the die.
I dont plan on cleaning this up any further.
So after reapplying TIMS, this should be safe to power-on right?
 
So it seems that as i was cleaning the stock paste of my GPU die, I got a drop of stock paste on the lower right part of my circuit board (encircled in red below). I did my best to clean it up but its not perfectly clean.
View attachment 2659499
My Card is the Asus ROG Strix Geforce RTX 4090 OC 24GB GDDR6X.
I assume stock thermal paste is non-conductive because when I first opened the GPU, I found some stock paste on the capacitors beside the die.
I dont plan on cleaning this up any further.
So after reapplying TIMS, this should be safe to power-on right?
You're overthinking this stuff man.

You can use a little isopropyl to clean up whatever you spilled on the board as best as you can.

But yes, you are fine.
 
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This statement is false and potentially dangerous.

Metal doesn't need to be a liquid to conduct electricity. The particles just need to be close enough for whatever voltage they are bridging to overcome the resistance provided by the binder. It's also possible for compounds to claim significant electrical resistance while still being easily capable of inducing enough stray capacitance to be problematic. Most thermal pastes are designed to conduct heat, not electricity, but there are certainly some thermal pastes that are flatly electrically conductive, and a huge number of pastes that are either capacitive enough to cause problems, or that can be rendered conductive through degradation or incomplete cleaning.

Stuff like Aremco Heat-Away is advertised as a thermal grease, most of their their metal filled greases are designed to be highly electrically conductive and are. There are a thousand similar products, many of which make it to shops, like Amazon or AliExpress, rebranded as TIM, with little mention of how electrically conductive they are. It's often cheaper to reach a moderate level of thermal conductivity with an electrically conductive paste than with a paste with high electrical resistance. This crap is almost certainly quite electrically conductive, as is this...they are powdered copper and silicone oil.

Stuff like Arctic Silver has a high enough electrical resistance when fresh and mixed properly for them to get away with calling it non-conductive, but they still need to include the disclaimer about it's capacitance in the product description, because if you do something silly like leave it in contact with a socket or closely placed SMDs, you could cause problems.

Beyond that, essentially every TIM that relies on metallic fillers, which is a large fraction of modern high performance pastes (pretty much any thermal paste advertising much more than 10W-m/K is either carbon filled, or metallic aluminum filled), can be turned electrically conductive, if enough binder is removed while leaving the filler behind.

The OP probably doesn't need to worry. As mentioned, the stock TIM is highly unlikely to be conductive or capacitive in any way, and most of the things any rational person would replace it with, other than liquid metal, should be safe enough for the location it will be used. However, is not even close to supporting the erroneous assertion that "conductive thermal paste does not exist".



No, generally not.

Both are under the broad category of Thermal Interface Materials...which is anything designed or used to conduct heat from one surface to another.

The subset of TIMs referred to as thermal pastes or thermal greases means some kind of thermally conductive filler suspended in a liquid binder. Paste and grease is usually interchangable here as most use some kind of oil as the binder, but I wouldn't consider the few non-oil based pastes to be greases. Most pastes using volitile binders are generally supposed to be dispensed on to a surface and then either heat cured or allowed to sit long enough for the binder to evaporate.

There are all kind of other TIMs, from metal shims, to compressible pads/gap fillers, to putties and gels. Liquid metal is exactly what it sounds like...a liquid alloy that is itself the thermally conductive material; there is no filler and no binder, just the metal.

The Upsiren LMTG-100 stuff that @s1rrah mentions is a weird outlier. It's liquid metal blended into an oil binder...supposedly to increase the viscosity of the liquid metal and make it easier to handle, while keeping it's higher thermal conductivity. In reality this stuff seems to be the worst of both worlds, not the best.

OK, it exists but you really have to go out or you're way to find some. No one is going to end up with electricity conductive thermal paste on accident.

Even though really the thermal grease you mentioned is not designed to be used as thermal paste in computers, it's more of an industrial product.

And yes as previously mentioned some thermal paste is capacitive, but not conductive.

I've been doing this stuff for a long time and I've never heard of a single instance of anyone damaging a GPU or any other components purely with thermal paste. It doesn't happen, it's not something that needs to be given any thought.
 
So it seems that as i was cleaning the stock paste of my GPU die, I got a drop of stock paste on the lower right part of my circuit board (encircled in red below). I did my best to clean it up but its not perfectly clean.
View attachment 2659499
My Card is the Asus ROG Strix Geforce RTX 4090 OC 24GB GDDR6X.
I assume stock thermal paste is non-conductive because when I first opened the GPU, I found some stock paste on the capacitors beside the die.
I dont plan on cleaning this up any further.
So after reapplying TIMS, this should be safe to power-on right?
Yes it is safe.
 
This statement is false and potentially dangerous.
Thanks for stepping up lol; I started a reply on that bit but didn't have the energy to carry on...

Rectangle Font Art Triangle Circle


~s
 
i use a bit of arctic mx6 to give aslight coating over the capacitors on my cpu cause inuse liquid metal on die.
This struck me as a curious way to protect surface mount devices, given how reactive gallium and aluminum (which is the majority component in MX-6) are. So, I did a quick experiment.

I used a paste I had with a similar proportion of metallic aluminum (PK-1, as it's what I had on hand), tried to mix a bead of liquid metal TIM into it, then I let it sit overnight. No visible reaction. Seems that the binder the aluminum is suspended in does a pretty good job of keeping the filler particles from coming into direct contact with anything. I doubt casual contact would cause problems, even in the long term.

Still, I'd probably recommend kapton tape or superglue for protecting SMDs from liquid metal. And if one is going to use solvents to clean aluminum containing TIM near exposed contacts, it's probably best to make sure to get it all, so one doesn't just emulsify and soak up the binder.
 
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This struck me as a curious way to protect surface mount devices, given how reactive gallium and aluminum (which is the majority component in MX-6) are. So, I did a quick experiment.

I used a paste I had with a similar proportion of metallic aluminum (PK-1, as it's what I had on hand), tried to mix a bead of liquid metal TIM into it, then I let it sit overnight. No visible reaction. Seems that the binder the aluminum is suspended in does a pretty good job of keeping the filler particles from coming into direct contact with anything. I doubt casual contact would cause problems, even in the long term.

Still, I'd probably recommend kapton tape or superglue for protecting SMDs from liquid metal. And if one is going to use solvents to clean aluminum containing TIM near exposed contacts, it's probably best to make sure to get it all, so one doesn't just emulsify and soak up the binder.
I never thought about mx6 reacting with lm. Just that its something isnt conductive to cover up smds.
 
Thanks for stepping up lol; I started a reply on that bit but didn't have the energy to carry on...

View attachment 2659602

~s
Name one thermal paste that isn't liquid metal, is made to be used on computer, and is conductive.

It does not exist.
 
I made this just for you.


If you can't find QRC cleaner then WD40 Specialist CONTACT Cleaner will do just as well, just not as "flashpoint" evaporation as the QRC product.

Go now. Find the answer...


~s
i've been using crc qd electronic cleaner for a decade with my cars but two years ago i had the curiosity of trying it on an older am4 motherboard that had a ton of paste in the socket that i wanted to sell. stuff worked wonders cleaning out the socket. i've also used it on cpu's and they make them look new. i used it recently to clean my sound blaster ae7 that had years of dust and pet dander stuck to it and made its pcb look brand new.

i never understood why these contact cleaners never got much mention before. they're really not that expensive given the amount you get and all the applications you get out of them. and you can find them at every auto part store and even walmart.
 
i've been using crc qd electronic cleaner for a decade with my cars but two years ago i had the curiosity of trying it on an older am4 motherboard that had a ton of paste in the socket that i wanted to sell. stuff worked wonders cleaning out the socket. i've also used it on cpu's and they make them look new. i used it recently to clean my sound blaster ae7 that had years of dust and pet dander stuck to it and made its pcb look brand new.

i never understood why these contact cleaners never got much mention before. they're really not that expensive given the amount you get and all the applications you get out of them. and you can find them at every auto part store and even walmart.
I agree. The auto parts product may be their MAF product, or it may be a more industrialized version of their QRC QD Electronic Parts cleaner.

I say that because when I was right in the middle of my first delid project, I ran out and went to the auto parts; they had the usual QRC MAF cleaner and another QRC sensor cleaner with identical branding but slightly different product names.

I just went with the MAF and cleaned the gear with some ISO afterward, as some will leave a light film. Sometimes, the auto-grade QRC products will have a different balance of ingredients, but the MAF worked fine for the spot I was in.

I keep stock now lol. It's almost as essential as thermal paste, in my opinion...

Intel sockets could be tricky with any high-pressure aerosol like the QRC cleaner, but the nozzle flow can be easily managed, so one would just have to kinda go lightly with it, maybe tilt the board and let it flow through the Intel socket pins and just run down off the board. You could likely just spray directly into the socket once you got your nozzle skils in place.

I don't know about AMD, but the Intel socket pins aren't really pins at all IMO ... more like stiff tin foil (almost). I believe they are sort of flat and very thin ... so fragile; you certainly would not want to go blasting any aerosol product in there full blast.

But the stuff is magical. I wish I had a 10-gallon vat of it to do full PCB baths and other things.

Coupled with a good blower? Ah, the holy lands...

~s
 
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