I think this is a clear cut deal. The 5800X3D with 3200MT/s speeds CL16 will always be faster than a 5950x no matter what RAM speed you have. And btw, 4400MT/s on Ryzen is none existent with 5000 series cpu's. And if you do run your ram at this speed, you will have a huge latency penalty due to FCLK, UCLK, and MCLK decoupled. 3800MT/s is the sweet spot for Ryzen 5000 series. Long story short, the 5800X3D is your choice, if gaming is what you're looking to do the most, even with 3200MT/s RAM. Period.

 

Long story short, the 5800X3D is your choice, if gaming is what you're looking to do the most, even with 3200MT/s RAM. Period.

Thanks. Just didn't want to shoot myself in the foot as this will be the last legs update for this PC, and can't really find a comparison for the comparison I was after, It makes it easier as I already have 64gb 3200 ram installed as well.

 

There is little sense in running any Vermeer part past 1:1:1 (usually topping out around 3800-4000MT/s on the memory). Running async on these parts is an enormous latency hit.

 

You should be able to run with no problems 3600CL16 or 3600CL18 memory on the 5800X3D.

 

RAM matters very little for the X3D. I ran many different kits on mine and in daily usage there is barely any difference between 3600C18 and 3800C14. Obviously for the fun of tweaking stuff and overclocking in general I run a 3600C14 B-Die kit fully tweaked to 3800C14 but it's absolutely not necessary.

 

True because primary timings don't really matter. If you adjust your tertiary timings you will certainly see a measurable difference in applications that are memory sensitive.

 

X3d no questions asked

 

First question:
Why do you need 64GB RAM?
The reason I ask? I think that you probably don't./
If your reason for the RAM is "multitasking", I'll tell you, straight up: your OS will either become unstable, unresponsive, or periodically lock up for anything between many milliseconds to many seconds, with enough things open to use over 32GB RAM at once.

I have a 5800X3D as well - your best bet is to get two kits of: Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 4400MHz - PVS416G440C9K
They're Samsung B-die and will allow you to run 3600-3800MHz C14 - right up near the 5800X3D's comfortable maximum.
If you don't want or can't get them specifically, you want something that'll do 3600-3800 C14

Your 5800X3D configured this way will last your 7900XTX and beyond - well beyond! Most likely it'll do a more than adequate job of driving top end card of AMD's next next generation!
That is, unless you plan to game at obscenely low resolutions.
That wouldn't be smart though, because they're making GPUs with more shaders now, not faster shaders. This allows for higher resolutions at up to a certain framerate. Higher framerates are enabled by faster GPU core speeds, not more shaders (considering the way in which game engines use them).
Consider the performance of a couple cards at 1080P Ultra settings: specifically comparing the 3080 (with shaders that run at ~1700MHz) to the 4090 (~2500MHz).
The 4090 is about 25/17 times faster than the 3080. If it was possible to run the 3080 at 2500MHz, it would almost tie the 4090 at 1080P (sans gimmicks).
Why? Because the 8704 shaders in the 3080 cover the 1080p resolution, and don't need to be run through twice (or more), dropping the framerate. This is an oversimplification, and I'm not the person to describe every detail, but most basically, this is how it is.

Theoretically, if AMD's next next gen's best GPU has 4x the shaders of the 7900XTX (which, admittedly, is a bit unlikely IMO, but go with it), and they run at 3200MHz, instead of gaming something at 100fps at 4K, you could do the same game at 8K, with the framerate being 32/25 times higher (128fps) - (32/25 from 3200MHz/ 2500MHz) (yes the 7900XTX and the 4090 both "boost" {on paper} to 2500)

Now...
Do games evolve and get more complicated? Yes.
Do engines change in ways we don't expect? Yes.
But consoles are here, and they're here to stay. And games need to run on them, too.
Because of this, the 5800X3D should be good enough to run most games very very well, from 2022-2030, and if you pop in a GPU upgrade in 2026-2027? You're golden at an even higher resolution (with maybe some new forms of eye candy, too) 'til 2030!


IF
and this is a big IF
IF your system ends up needing 64GB RAM to run games in 2026-2027 (0.1%)
all you have to do, is buy some used DDR4 from someone on here! There'll be plenty, because the 5800X3D is the best gaming chip that runs it! As people retire their old, you get it for a very reasonable price! Probably $200. Which shouldn't be a concern if you're dropping 2k at the same time for a GPU. You could probably sell your amazing B-die here for $100+ to recover half the cost.

I think it's a waste of money to buy more than 32GB RAM for your system right now. Unless, like I said, you specifically need it for something that isn't general multitasking.


edit: almost forgot. At 2030 this machine isn't toast - it'll still be fast enough to play all those games at mid-tier GPU level 'til 2034!
At or around 2030, a new console might come out with 16 cores, making 16 cores the new standard. Just like you can still run games on 4 core CPUs today, they'll still run on 8 in the future, probably very playable. Just not state-of-the-art.

edit2: before you go thinking it's ridiculous that any chip will last 12 years, it's not! The 5800X3D is uniquely positioned to last an extra 4 years because of its cache and extremely well designed microarchitecture (almost unchanged in 7800X3D - just RAM and MHz)_.

It's like my 2500K - it was uniquely positioned because of its ability to OC its cores by 40% with a 10-30% increase in IPC and 60+% RAM OC potential. And AVX!
2500K (2011) @ 4.8GHz & 16GB DDR3 2133 C8 (EIGHT) + 1080Ti (2017)? EXCEPTIONALLY MATCHED
2080Ti? little bit of bottlenecking, and some games started being optimized for more than 4 cores, disadvantaging a little bit.
But literally, that 6 year old CPU (2500K@4.8) paired with a brand new GPU (1080Ti), placed side by side for an a/b comparison next to a 7600K/8350K with 1080Ti? Even the very experienced would have a hard time differentiating.

That'll be your 5800X3D, almost. The Sandy Bridge (2500K/2600K) was a unique situation because AMD was soooo far behind so Intel, so Intel lazed around. Now, with the duopoly so close to each other in performance, and needing to compete with ARM etc., things will move faster. But now we're running up against density/power problems. Can't know the future for sure! But the 5800X3D with 32GB (for now at least) DDR4 3800 C14, is a solid choice.

 

I think the real question is if the OP wants to deal with ram overclocking headaches.


Because 5950x can run ram much faster than 4400, and get performance out of it.


Bullzoid proved you take an initial latency spike downwards, but the bandwidth of the ram evenetually catches back up, as does the timings. It will look like a big CHECK mark. initial dip down, gradual climb upwards.


If Bullzoid says that it is possible, along with him showing many graphcs PROVING it, then why not give it the ol college try?


Again, rma overclocking = massive headache. Do not partake unless ready for a long term challenge.

 

An X3D will do the same in gear 2. I have no issues at all running 4533C17 in gear 2. It just isn't anywhere near as fast as 3800C14 gear 1 in gaming.

 

So a 5800x3d with 3800cl14 makes a difference? All i hear is that faster memory doesn’t matter on the x3d.

 

For most, the added cost of 3800 C14 isn't justified when comparing the 5800X3D's performance with it, to its performance with much cheaper, budget oriented DDR4 kits. If you've got a high end GPU and/or game at high refresh rates at 1080P with upper-midrange, this is less true.

Your basic statement is right, though - in most cases and with most games, the benefit is not big at all for choosing to run 3800 C14 with 5800X3D vs. slower and higher latency memory.
But for some games, the benefit? HUGE. Think the difference between 9600K@5.2GHz + 3080 with 3800 C14 vs 9600K@5.2GHz + 3080 + 3200 C18. Pretty big!
And as time goes on, the list of games affected will only increase. So if you're planning on keeping it - invest!

• You probably know that the performance benefit from the added cache is down to it storing a small amount, usually less than 100MB, of specific game data.
• With game data access set up this way, everything runs more smoothly and at a higher frame rate, with less periodic interruptions (microstutters)
• If the amount of data that the CPU needs fast access to for the game to run better is higher than the 100MB of cache available, the stuff that doesn't fit goes to RAM instead. The less data over 100MB, the better. And the faster the RAM, the better! The cache will still help, but not as much as it could have (if the game was designed to run on hardware that actually exists today, which is another issue so moving along....) Also, (and like always) the CPU still needs it as fast as possible, so having the RAM clocked at 3800 C14 will help. The faster RAM also benefits some game processes not affected by that extra bit of 3D storage.

3800 C14 is probably the best speed of RAM for 5800X3Ds right now. Coincidentally, it's also most likely the fastest RAM that can be run stably 1:1 by the majority of 5800X3Ds without excessive SOC voltages.

Faster RAM is always better. Always. Of course... this is only as long as performance doesn't paradoxically suffer for some dumb reason. Best rule? Use reasonable voltages and make sure cooling is adequate before finding the highest stable clocks and lowest timings!
Honestly I was hoping to get lucky and run 4000 C14, but no - not for me...
Apparently 32GB Samsung B-die (4 sticks) might have something to do with it
Some people might say 4000 C14 is crazy, but so was DDR400 when it came out! 3 years later, I'm sure the guy who bought some was happy he didn't keep his 266

 

The x3d would be better even at jedec.

 

I will pay cash to someone who can prove the user can notice 58ns vs 62ns, everything else identical. and without the assistance of synthetic benchmarks. Im talking normal day to day tasks.

Because I have over 15ns worse latency on my 128gb RAM setup (4 sticks of RDIMM) versus my old 32gb setup (4 sticks ECC), at the same bandwidth and primary timings. And I only really notice it during game installations and super heavy game loading. Intel Xeon platform. Quad channel. EVery little detail helps this stupid platform of mine.

Seriously.



Ryzen loves bandwidth just as much as it loves low latency. Latency is certainly favored MORE, but if you could magically run say 2666 CL8, I would wager 3600 CL16 would potentially outperform it in most scenarios.

 

I will pay cash to someone who can prove the user can notice 58ns vs 62ns

Mind pointing out those 5950x that are running with ram "much faster than 4400" first ??

 

As I expected, no sign of any 5950x's examples running "much faster than 4400", how disappointing 🤣

 

I have the same 4133 with two boxes of 2x8 gb 16 gb they are 4400mhz viper gaming patriot on a mag b550m bazooka with the 5950x and a msi rx6800xt trio this setup is baller for a am4 setup but my question is do you think me running sam is what out preforms the 5800x3d i have both cpu s and the 5950x tends to run about 30 to 45 % better the the 5800x3d only will run 3600 and the 5950x will run 4133mhz

 

A lot of people here are talking about how tuning ram is hard. Not really. Not with a clearly presented video for beginners that shows you how step by step. And since we're talking about zen 3, tuning b-die with Zen 3 isn't nearly as hard as people make it out to be and it is definitely worth your time to do so if performance and smoothness matters to you at all. This video covers the basics and gets you most of the way there, not tweaked to perfection, but just the easiest way that gives you great performance.

 

**** ram is hard to tune because its ****ty, and that's what people buy. B-Die is really what the people want. If you play at 4K might as well get the 5950X..

 

I think this is a clear cut deal. The 5800X3D with 3200MT/s speeds CL16 will always be faster than a 5950x no matter what RAM speed you have. And btw, 4400MT/s on Ryzen is none existent with 5000 series cpu's. And if you do run your ram at this speed, you will have a huge latency penalty due to FCLK, UCLK, and MCLK decoupled. 3800MT/s is the sweet spot for Ryzen 5000 series. Long story short, the 5800X3D is your choice, if gaming is what you're looking to do the most, even with 3200MT/s RAM. Period.

I don't know about a "huge latency" penalty. It's a known thing that enough memory speed can overcome the latency penalty and anything over DDR 4200MHZ should be plenty. But still not ideal over just getting 3800MHZ C14 b-die memory...though that's probably going to cost more than DDR5 in 2023.