Arctic P12 and P120 / P14 and P140 "Pressure Optimized" Fans : reviews/discussion thread

deepor · Jul 28, 2019

ciarlatano said:
My favorite result was the ML140 Pro having 50% more CFM than the ML140 Pro RGB......it's a very special article.

Are you sure you didn't make a mistake there and are confused about "LL140" and "ML140"? Those LL and ML models seem to have totally differently shaped fan blades and different amount of fan blades, and also different speeds. It's a bit hard to find picture online because there's only crappy marketing pictures about how they look like while they are running to show what the LEDs are doing.

Here's photos about that crappy LL140:

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.p...l120-rgb-und-ll140-rgb-im-test-luefter-mit-doppeltem-rgb-lichtring.html?start=1

EDIT:

Oh, I think I get what you are looking at. There's that other page where things look different. I was only looking at the 1000 RPM page.

EDIT2:

I think I found out what's going on on that other page. They have a test about ML140 RGB here:

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.p...rsair-ml140-pro-rgb-im-nachtest-magnetlager-und-rgb-beleuchtung-kombiniert.html

And there they write that their ML140 is 2200 RPM, and their ML140 RGB is just 1200 RPM. That should then explain the very different CFM at max speed.

Exilon · Jul 28, 2019

Fan speed reduced a bit, pump speed reduced 5%, power load increased a bit since I was doing something else.

38dB at ~1370 RPM

36dB at ~1170 RPM, but it's getting difficult to measure due to background noise

It's getting too hot in the room. Time to turn on the air conditioning (45dB), so that's the end of noise testing.

I'm actually upset at this whole situation. Went through Vardar 140, ML140, NF-A14 fans, all essentially side-grades, and then some $30 per 5 pack from Arctic blows them all out of the water...

AlphaC · Jul 29, 2019

For 16 FPI radiators that result seems better than expected. What is the thickness?

Exilon · Jul 29, 2019

30mm 420mm (HWLabs GTS) exhausting on top with push.

45mm 280mm (EK CE) intake + filter on front with push pull

Some more chart data:

Previous ML140 + NF-A14 setup at ~1150RPM:

Current Arctic P14 setup at 1350RPM and 1200RPM:

1350RPM with the Arctic P14 is quieter than the 1150RPM ML140 + NF-A14 setup.

Edit: W10 emojis don't work, charts are hard.

doyll · Jul 29, 2019

ciarlatano said:
My favorite result was the ML140 Pro having 50% more CFM than the ML140 Pro RGB......it's a very special article.

Can you post a link to that one?

The way some members think, RGB gives 50% performance increase.

@ deeper;

Indeed, how the anolamy of 1 our to 5 different airflow resistance tests of BioniX P140 & P140 is 5 cubic meters / hour lower yet no mention of this anomaly in arcticle

.

ciarlatano · Jul 29, 2019

doyll said:
Can you post a link to that one?

The way some members think, RGB gives 50% performance increase.

@ deeper;

Indeed, how the anolamy of 1 our to 5 different airflow resistance tests of BioniX P140 & P140 is 5 cubic meters / hour lower yet no mention of this anomaly in arcticle
.

I'm at work, so sketchy Russian sites are blocked.

I'll point that out when I have a chance. It's on the same chart that shows the 120mm SW3 high speed moving significantly more air than the 140mm high speed.

But, all of that really doesn't matter. The point is......why can't we just get a decent review of the Arctic P Series fans???????

deepor · Jul 29, 2019

@doyll, @ciarlatano:

Here's the German version of that article, that one doesn't have a .ru URL:

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.p...nd-p14-pwm-pst-im-doppeltest-die-p-serie-verspricht-hohen-statischen-druck.html

In that version, they also don't mention this thing with the 55 vs. 60 cubic meters in their 1000 RPM test.

So they either made a mistake and didn't repeat their testing, or there really is something different.

About things maybe being different, on page 2 and 3 they have photos of both models and they are a tiny bit different. I would guess that the differences between the fans wouldn't be enough for a different result, especially as the difference is only there for that one "grill" setup but not for the "grill+filter" and "radiator" tests.

I would then guess they made a mistake. About why they don't mention anything and didn't try repeating to fix it, a possible reason might be that the mistake is just a typo? Maybe the result was for example "58" or "59" and the person fat-fingered things on the number pad of his keyboard and typed "55" instead.

Exilon · Jul 30, 2019

I think there are no decent reviews because they're too cheap and people have been condition to expect performance fans to be expensive.

Normal people use stock fans while the enthusiasts go for the name brand fans at >$20/ea. Fan reviews are hardly hot topics like monitor or CPU/GPU reviews, so not many clicks to go around.

It's unfortunate because these $6-7/ea P14 fans come out on top against Vardar, ML140, and NF-A14 by a large margin on my 16FPI setup in the sub-45dB range.

On the other hand, it only cost $50 (actually $28 thanks to Prime Day credits) to swap out my entire setup on a lark.

poah · Jul 30, 2019

Exilon said:
I think there are no decent reviews because they're too cheap and people have been condition to expect performance fans to be expensive.

Normal people use stock fans while the enthusiasts go for the name brand fans at >$20/ea. Fan reviews are hardly hot topics like monitor or CPU/GPU reviews, so not many clicks to go around.

It's unfortunate because these $6-7/ea P14 fans come out on top against Vardar, ML140, and NF-A14 by a large margin on my 16FPI setup in the sub-45dB range.

On the other hand, it only cost $50 (actually $28 thanks to Prime Day credits) to swap out my entire setup on a lark.

pretty much the only complaint has been some have been damaged in transit. I'm super happy with the fans. Loudest bit on my system is the PSU which is going to get changed when I get a navi card
.

doyll · Jul 30, 2019

deepor said:
@doyll , @ciarlatano :

Here's the German version of that article, that one doesn't have a .ru URL:

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.p...nd-p14-pwm-pst-im-doppeltest-die-p-serie-verspricht-hohen-statischen-druck.html

In that version, they also don't mention this thing with the 55 vs. 60 cubic meters in their 1000 RPM test.

So they either made a mistake and didn't repeat their testing, or there really is something different.

About things maybe being different, on page 2 and 3 they have photos of both models and they are a tiny bit different. I would guess that the differences between the fans wouldn't be enough for a different result, especially as the difference is only there for that one "grill" setup but not for the "grill+filter" and "radiator" tests.

I would then guess they made a mistake. About why they don't mention anything and didn't try repeating to fix it, a possible reason might be that the mistake is just a typo? Maybe the result was for example "58" or "59" and the person fat-fingered things on the number pad of his keyboard and typed "55" instead.

Whatever excuse we try and use, it doesn't change the fact they have a serious anomoly in their testing, one that cannot be explained and one they didn't even try to explain. I can't believe they didn't notice that glaring error and comment on it.

Exilon said:
I think there are no decent reviews because they're too cheap and people have been condition to expect performance fans to be expensive.

Normal people use stock fans while the enthusiasts go for the name brand fans at >$20/ea. Fan reviews are hardly hot topics like monitor or CPU/GPU reviews, so not many clicks to go around.

It's unfortunate because these $6-7/ea P14 fans come out on top against Vardar, ML140, and NF-A14 by a large margin on my 16FPI setup in the sub-45dB range.

On the other hand, it only cost $50 (actually $28 thanks to Prime Day credits) to swap out my entire setup on a lark.

I don't think it's because of cheap product .. possibly because people who buy cheap are not paying attention to performance and quality but I doubt it.

Both normal people and most enthusiasts are sheep following the herd's lead. Few bother to learn how things actually work and believing almost anything they see in advertising. They simply don't know enough to notice this kind of error, same as cooler testing in cases using air temp taken at thermometer on other side of room at beginning and end of testing instead of the actual air temp going into cooler.

Sad but true.

The quality of low cost fans can be problematic. Little to no difference in housing and impeller other than possible research into developing a better design, but lower quality bearings, motor wiring and PWM circuitry can be .. and of course packaging that results in shipping damage.

Sure would be nice to have some test results from a source like Thermalbench and CoolingTechnique who use a more scientific approach to testing.

liszt17 · Jul 30, 2019

Hi everyone! I'm thinking about to use the p14 as a case fan. My case is the enthoo pro, without hdd cages. I currently use 2 wing boost 2 140 from alpenföhn as intake, and 2 p12 as outtake. I fairly satisfied with temps, but not with the noise. I want a fan with good airflow at low rpms, because alpenföhns are not so great in this.
So I want a fan, with good airflow, very silent, and reasonable price.
I like to ask that, is the p14 a good fan compared to Alpenföhn Wb3/beQuiet! Sw3/Sw3 hs/Noctua nf-a14/nb eloop b14-ps?
I live in Hungary, and here the prices are ~11 Euro for wb3, ~17-20 Euro for Sw3/Hs, ~22 Euro for NF-A14, and ~23 Euro for b-14 ps. Compared to theese, the p14 pst price in Hungary are ~6 Euro per piece, and 24 Euro for the 5 pack...
So the price of 1 premium fan I can buy 5 piece of p14's.
I registered mainly for this post, so can I ask, how perform the p14 in same speed, max speed, same noise comparison? In real life, not rewiews.
Thank you!

deepor · Jul 30, 2019

doyll said:
Whatever excuse we try and use, it doesn't change the fact they have a serious anomoly in their testing, one that cannot be explained and one they didn't even try to explain. I can't believe they didn't notice that glaring error and comment on it.
[...]

I actually think their test is done really well. They seem to have thought a good bit about how to best do it, like for example what setups they chose with dust-filter or radiator or whatnot. And they arranged that tunnel and measurement device. I don't see what's wrong with what they are doing. It should create good results.

Could you notice another thing in their results or testing that looked off besides that one graph? If everything else looks good, their work is probably fine and their results are then trustworthy. At least you know they didn't just hide results when something was off in what they measured.

doyll · Jul 30, 2019

liszt17 said:
Hi everyone! I'm thinking about to use the p14 as a case fan. My case is the enthoo pro, without hdd cages. I currently use 2 wing boost 2 140 from alpenföhn as intake, and 2 p12 as outtake. I fairly satisfied with temps, but not with the noise. I want a fan with good airflow at low rpms, because alpenföhns are not so great in this.
So I want a fan, with good airflow, very silent, and reasonable price.
I like to ask that, is the p14 a good fan compared to Alpenföhn Wb3/beQuiet! Sw3/Sw3 hs/Noctua nf-a14/nb eloop b14-ps?
I live in Hungary, and here the prices are ~11 Euro for wb3, ~17-20 Euro for Sw3/Hs, ~22 Euro for NF-A14, and ~23 Euro for b-14 ps. Compared to theese, the p14 pst price in Hungary are ~6 Euro per piece, and 24 Euro for the 5 pack...
So the price of 1 premium fan I can buy 5 piece of p14's.
I registered mainly for this post, so can I ask, how perform the p14 in same speed, max speed, same noise comparison? In real life, not rewiews.
Thank you!

Welcome to OCN!

As stated before Arctic P series are probably a good choice considering their low price. |More crictial listeners don't seem to like their sound profile as well and much more expensive fans, but for the price difference most are happy with them.

What is the price of Phanteks PH-F140MP in 2-pack or 3-pack? Here in UK we can get PH-F140MP 2-pack for £16.26, which are a much better fans for only a little more money.

Another fan to look for is Thermalright TY-140, 147, 147A, 147A SQ. Every once in awhile they sell for very low prices. If you get the rounded ones, they can be squared up quite easily with a saw or sander and I've made thin plywood or plastic 140mm square adapter plates with 140mm fan mounting holes. Link below is the that post.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/23207921-post23.html

deepor said:
I actually think their test is done really well. They seem to have thought a good bit about how to best do it, like for example what setups they chose with dust-filter or radiator or whatnot. And they arranged that tunnel and measurement device. I don't see what's wrong with what they are doing. It should create good results.

Could you notice another thing in their results or testing that looked off besides that one graph? If everything else looks good, their work is probably fine and their results are then trustworthy. At least you know they didn't just hide results when something was off in what they measured.

While the test station looks good at a glance, it's not as good as it looks. It is a 5.75" acrylic tube 1 meter in length. While 5.75" (146mm) diameter is fine for 120mm fan testing it is too close to size of 140mm fans (which is what they tested here). It also has an "airflow straightener" of woolen wire screens spaced inside tube that which probably do straighten/equalize airflow across area of tube, it is also creates some airflow resistance. Long story short, the 146mm diameter of tube is going to be restricting 140mm fan airflow more than it will restict 120mm and smaller fan's airflow.

So it's testing results on 140mm fans is tubing size is restricing airflow to some extent, no idea how much.

The glearing abnormality is the grill test with a 9.1% differential between fans. With 5 test total, 3 tests are same flow and one off by only 1.6%. Tthe 1.6% is probably within margin of error for their test equipment, but 9.1% is a glaring abnormality!

As they make no comment about this glaring abnormality, I assume they thing this is accurate and acceptalbe testing procedure and results .. when 3 others have no differences and other one has only 1.6% of difference, how can their results be considerd good?

Exilon · Jul 30, 2019

PH-F140MP are pretty bad case fans, even through a mesh. I tried using them as a case fan on my dual AIO Enthoo Pro build (with HDD cage) after they flopped against Vardar 140 on 30FPI radiators and they disappointed there too.

VSG says they're worse than Vardar 140/NF-A14/ML140 (they all fall within a few %) on 12FPI rads as well. Given how restrictive the front-end of the Enthoo Pro is, I expect VSG's tests to be a decent good proxy.

http://thermalbench.com/2015/08/12/ek-vardar-f3-140er-140mm-fan/3/

http://thermalbench.com/2015/10/31/thermalright-ty-147a-140mm-fan/3/

Just get the Arctic P14 and see how they do. Two of them at 1200 RPM should pull a lot of air without making much noise at all.

doyll · Jul 30, 2019

Exilon said:
PH-F140MP are pretty bad case fans, even through a mesh. I tried using them as a case fan on my dual AIO Enthoo Pro build (with HDD cage) after they flopped against Vardar 140 on 30FPI radiators and they disappointed there too.

VSG says they're worse than Vardar 140/NF-A14/ML140 (they all fall within a few %) on 12FPI rads as well. Given how restrictive the front-end of the Enthoo Pro is, I expect VSG's tests to be a decent good proxy.

http://thermalbench.com/2015/08/12/ek-vardar-f3-140er-140mm-fan/3/

http://thermalbench.com/2015/10/31/thermalright-ty-147a-140mm-fan/3/

Just get the Arctic P14 and see how they do. Two of them at 1200 RPM should pull a lot of air without making much noise at all.

VSG has done very good fan testing and reviews. He and I have talked a lot about different fans over the years. You say he says TY-147 is worse, but VGS scores it as good as ML140, 5% below NF-A14 and 10% below Vardar 140. Besides, Vardar fans were a flash in the pan. Making news (not all good) for a year or so and almos nothing sense.

I and others I know have used TY-14x series fans as case fans in many Define cases with excellent results. Same applies to using PH-F140MP as intakes in Define and other restrictive airflow cases, all giving us excellent airflow with excellent low noise levels.

This is actual hands on experience .. quite different to your reading a reveiw and making claims.

Your claim of only using 2x 140mm fans as front intakes, regardless of what fans they are will have a very hard time supplying enough airflow to 3x 80/90mm GPU cooler fans and 140mm CPU cooler fan, even if they are running a much higher speed making much more noise. Coolers are not as restrictive as case vents with filters

and 3x 80mm fans can easily be moving about 100cfm at approx 2000rpm, 3x 90mm can be 100-130cfm at 1700-2000rpm .. that's significantly more air then 1 of 2 140mm front intake fans can supply, because 1x 140mm of airflow is needed for 140mm fan/s on CPU cooler.

Would be nice if @VSG would chime in on this thread.

Exilon · Jul 30, 2019

doyll said:
VSG has done very good fan testing and reviews. He and I have talked a lot about different fans over the years. You say he says TY-147 is worse, but VGS scores it as good as ML140, 5% below NF-A14 and 10% below Vardar 140. Besides, Vardar fans were a flash in the pan. Making news (not all good) for a year or so and almos nothing sense.

I and others I know have used TY-14x series fans as case fans in many Define cases with excellent results. Same applies to using PH-F140MP as intakes in Define and other restrictive airflow cases, all giving us excellent airflow with excellent low noise levels.

This is actual hands on experience .. quite different to your reading a reveiw and making claims.

Would be nice if @VSG would chime in on this thread.

Why are you saying a fan is X% better on the arbitrary scoring? Look at the performance charts VSG provided.

My HANDS ON EXPERIENCE with NF-A14, ML140, and Vardar 140 is that they're nearly identical in performance and agree with VSG's measurements. If VSG says F140MP and TY-14x are worse than those three, I'll trust VSG's measurements.

My HANDS ON EXPERIENCE also tells me that the PH-F140MP are awful at front case fan duty on the Enthoo Pro compared to the the Vardar 140.

Also, I know exactly why the Vardar 140 just kind of trailed off. I have 8 of them sitting in a closet, 4 of them pretty much gifts from EK RMA department, because all of them except 2 had ballbearing issues, grinding, or PWM whining.

JackCY · Jul 30, 2019

Exilon said:
I'm actually upset at this whole situation. Went through Vardar 140, ML140, NF-A14 fans, all essentially side-grades, and then some $30 per 5 pack from Arctic blows them all out of the water...

Possible, for me the price alone makes it. The performance is not 4x worse at 4x lower price. Making all these Corsair, Noctua, even Phanteks and Thermalright very pricey and poor value. Corsair, Noctua and other big brands (Arctic is big too) make an effort to get their products into shops so people can buy it but some of the smaller brands don't and getting their fans and coolers can be difficult in some regions.

ciarlatano said:
That's not a counterargument. I was merely pointing out that reviews are all over the place on these, and all from small sites and/or tested in ways that really show nothing. With all of the attention these seem to be getting, I would love to see some testing from someone like VSG.

Thermalbench is not publishing anything if that's what you mean by VSG. Last fan reviewed: October 12, 2017

ciarlatano said:
The point is......why can't we just get a decent review of the Arctic P Series fans???????

There is no money in doing so and big reviewers that often do CPU/GPU/maybe some mobos and RAM/SSD don't bother with expensive hardware setups to test PSUs, FANs, even Monitors (at least not properly beyond advertising specs), ...

Finding a decent review of any fan is a miracle because you also need a comparison to other fans. Having a good review without any comparison is fairly useless.

doyll said:
Whatever excuse we try and use, it doesn't change the fact they have a serious anomoly in their testing, one that cannot be explained and one they didn't even try to explain. I can't believe they didn't notice that glaring error and comment on it.

There are mistakes even in large sites/YT channels reviews of CPUs/GPUs etc. you have to read and spot it yourself, realize it's their mistake, typo, some almost can't make one without it. If it gets popularized by viewers/readers then they will go and fix it, address it in next video etc.
Fans don't exactly get the "reader/viewer" hype as GPUs do so these mistakes would get reported and fixed.

liszt17 said:
Hi everyone! I'm thinking about to use the p14 as a case fan. My case is the enthoo pro, without hdd cages. I currently use 2 wing boost 2 140 from alpenföhn as intake, and 2 p12 as outtake. I fairly satisfied with temps, but not with the noise. I want a fan with good airflow at low rpms, because alpenföhns are not so great in this.
So I want a fan, with good airflow, very silent, and reasonable price.
I like to ask that, is the p14 a good fan compared to Alpenföhn Wb3/beQuiet! Sw3/Sw3 hs/Noctua nf-a14/nb eloop b14-ps?
I live in Hungary, and here the prices are ~11 Euro for wb3, ~17-20 Euro for Sw3/Hs, ~22 Euro for NF-A14, and ~23 Euro for b-14 ps. Compared to theese, the p14 pst price in Hungary are ~6 Euro per piece, and 24 Euro for the 5 pack...
So the price of 1 premium fan I can buy 5 piece of p14's.
I registered mainly for this post, so can I ask, how perform the p14 in same speed, max speed, same noise comparison? In real life, not rewiews.
Thank you!

F14 are airflow fans with older motor (I think, seems to me). Many blades 9-11+, loves to blow air around sideways, small blades steep angle.
P14 are pressure fans with newer motor. Less blades 5-7, with the P14 blade design (CM uses it too on some of their fans) it pushes air more directionally than scattering it sideways, large blades with extended tips and low angle.

If you've cut grills out, don't use filters or any obstructions then airflow fans are fine such as the F14. For everything else the P14 will likely be better as they can push/pull through the restrictions better.
In an unmodded case there pretty much isn't a spot to put airflow fans.

The cheapest for 5x P14 (non PWM) I've seen is 22 EUR shipped. For PWM PST it's 30 EUR shipped, still cheaper than all the PWM (non PST) I found. You have to look around. 4.5-6 EUR a piece is pretty normal.

There are other brands and popular fans but those may be more local/regional, similar price, who knows what performance and from those if one wants a good design (Thermalright fan blades shape) they suddenly cost more than the Arctics.

Plus the RGB cancer has destroyed many fans. You can look at some Corsair fans, 140mm but the blade diameter is small because they had to cram in a giant RGB ring of plastic, etc.

Exilon · Jul 30, 2019

JackCY said:
Possible, for me the price alone makes it. The performance is not 4x worse at 4x lower price. Making all these Corsair, Noctua, even Phanteks and Thermalright very pricey and poor value. Corsair, Noctua and other big brands (Arctic is big too) make an effort to get their products into shops so people can buy it but some of the smaller brands don't and getting their fans and coolers can be difficult in some regions.

Yeah the price alone makes it, and outperforming the 4x more expensive fans is just cherry on top. I'm just a little bitter at the other brands because I went through like $150 worth of fans and they all got roasted by a $30 5-pack.

AlphaC · Jul 30, 2019

Exilon have you seen the P12 page recently? They claim to outperform Nf-A12x25...

BroadPwns · Jul 30, 2019

I... Wouldn't call that outperform xD

Arctic P12 and P120 / P14 and P140 "Pressure Optimized" Fans : reviews/discussion thread

deepor

Exilon

AlphaC

Exilon

doyll

ciarlatano

deepor

Exilon

poah

doyll

liszt17

deepor

doyll

Exilon

doyll

Exilon

JackCY

Exilon

AlphaC

BroadPwns

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