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NEW Microsoft Pro IntelliMouse (PAW 3389 PRO-MS)

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#642 ·
I am full of curiosity to discover any hardware revisions of Pro IntelliMouse.
If you do purchase one within 2020, then feel free to add a screenshot of Device Information page.
(sample page).


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#643 ·
Stormfirebird said:
Also came to about the same result of +1ms with wireless connection over wired, which is basically irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Unrecognizable test methods and gadgets from the industry, or from organization of test and measurement, they are not named as fact at the age of grownups.
 
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#644 ·
He is using Nvidia LDAT, if that's not something you recognize, thats a you problem. ;)
You linked something about your findings in regards to bluetooth earlier. Bluetooth does infact incur more latency (as tested in this case), not because of available bandwidth but simply based on the limited polling rate it offers in this case.

Seeing that you intentionally use an oudated vulnerable OS and pick your mouse based on how much RAM the mouse utility uses I recognize you might not be open for what is recognized as facts in the adult world.
 
#645 ·
1-2ms is not negligble. (and according to battlenonsense its 1ms when moving one direction, 2 ms when changing directions.)

Latency of 30 ms Benefits First Person Targeting Tasks More Than Refresh Rate Above 60 Hz | Research

In competitive sports, human performance makes the difference between who wins and loses. In some competitive video games (esports), response time is an essential factor of human performance. When the athlete's equipment (computer, input and output device) responds with lower latency, it...
research.nvidia.com research.nvidia.com
www.nvidia.com

Introducing NVIDIA Reflex: Optimize and Measure Latency in Competitive Games

New NVIDIA Reflex Low Latency Mode coming to Apex Legends, Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War, Fortnite, Valorant, and more.
www.nvidia.com
developer.nvidia.com

Aiming Faster in Games with Low Computer System Latency | NVIDIA Technical Blog

Competitive gamers play games to win and get most of their enjoyment from doing well. In fact, the entire field of esports is based on this style of play, where every possible advantage is sought out…
developer.nvidia.com developer.nvidia.com
 
#646 ·
Axaion said:
1-2ms is not negligble
Click to expand...
It really is though, and none of what you linked touches on differences this small.
Axaion said:
2 ms when changing directions
Click to expand...
Could you provide a timecode for that?
Ofc this adds to total latency, but even 2 ms are not gonna make or break it.
There are still professional players using 400 DPI or 500Hz, or maybe all of this combined, and guess what, it just doesn't matter.
It's great that this sort of information exists and everyone can make his decisions based on that, if you want the lowest total latency possible sure go for it.
I take that 1-2ms penalty over the feel of flinging around a cable any day.
 
#647 ·
Poor Microsoft you will be lost with out R&D and products of Taiwan. :cool:

PixArt Imaging Inc., headquartered in Hsinchu Taiwan, is established in July 1998. We specialize in CMOS imaging sensing technology and navigation related integrated chip designs, and offer a broad selection of sensor products and services to support today’s complex human-machine interface designs.

Product page.

Wire-red sensor

Wire-less sensor

Your own unknown words:
1) How do I measure Acceleration 40 (g) or 50 (g)
2) What is the difference of Interface 3-wire SPI and of 4-wire SPI
3) When I am on gaming will I ever expect that mouse sensor will alter the delivered Frame Rate (fps) with out me to be aware of it.

No more by quote reply to any one, until some one talks to me by the use of the language of Engineers.




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#648 ·
Stormfirebird said:
It really is though, and none of what you linked touches on differences this small.

Could you provide a timecode for that?
Ofc this adds to total latency, but even 2 ms are not gonna make or break it.
There are still professional players using 400 DPI or 500Hz, or maybe all of this combined, and guess what, it just doesn't matter.
It's great that this sort of information exists and everyone can make his decisions based on that, if you want the lowest total latency possible sure go for it.
I take that 1-2ms penalty over the feel of flinging around a cable any day.
Click to expand...
it adds to total latency, if 8ms makes that large a difference, 2ms is going to make a non-negilible difference too, youre going to be compensating for it without knowing it.
if youre fine with that, thats a different case, but techinically its not negilible - maybe 2-4khz wireless would be better in this regard but we dont have any tests of that
 
#649 ·
Wheter or not it's negligible comes down to definition, atleast subjectively it would be. Just look at what some of the top players in CS use. S1mple is up there with a Superlight at 400DPI.

kiriakos said:
1) How do I measure Acceleration 40 (g) or 50 (g)
2) What is the difference of Interface 3-wire SPI and of 4-wire SPI
3) When I am on gaming will I ever expect that mouse sensor will alter the delivered Frame Rate (fps) with out me to be aware of it.
Click to expand...
1)Do you want to verify their claim? You might have to give some context to get a proper answer.
2)There is documentation out there for both sensors, read it! Unless all you're asking is if it makes a difference for you if your mouse came with either of these sensors, then the answer is no.
3)Yes, or no depending on how we are supposed to interpret that sentence.
 
#650 ·
Thats nice for simple, but it does not change the numbers.
as for how much it matters, idk, take a 4th of the studies amount i guess?, no idea. - again if 8 ms makes that large an impact there is no logical reasoning for 2 ms to not have an impact either
 
#651 ·
You don't have numbers that apply to this situation.
Given the selection of sources you posted I would not assume for the benefit to scale that linearly.
Is there an impact? Probably, what I'm saying is that people don't seem to care even at the highest level, especially in CS.
Heck why do people even use mice from finalmouse where you get 500Hz with most(?) models?
 
#652 ·
Stormfirebird said:
1)Do you want to verify their claim? You might have to give some context to get a proper answer.
2)There is documentation out there for both sensors, read it! Unless all you're asking is if it makes a difference for you if your mouse came with either of these sensors, then the answer is no.
3)Yes, or no depending on how we are supposed to interpret that sentence.
Click to expand...
1) This is homework for you and your equals.
2) I am asking from whom ? you ? who are you?
3) industrial - engineering text does not accept interpretations, it is what it is and this expects to be understood by qualifying H.I. the opposite of A.I.

Sub-low in value generic speculations this is for you and your equals.

BEST EVER Mouse for gaming these are the wired ones, and the choices of winners they are always remaining as secret.

Now get out to spam another topic, or start one of your own. .
 
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#653 ·
So many pages and no one added few text lines of his own experiences, of how well the Microsoft calibration utility helps, so the mouse to be adjusted with perfection at the mouse-pad that you own.
I bet that I will discover all the important details tomorrow.

One week back I was testing the MX518 Hero, great mouse when system was idle, all over the place when I was gaming with all cores at 100% load.
Poor made Logitech drivers, the least that I can say, and product build quality the worst I have ever seem.

I bet that Microsoft by running the mouse driver functionality under .NET framework, even at 100% system load, .NET framework has Top priority among the number of entire running system services, and because of that the mouse will be responsive all times.

Too bad that other owners of the mouse are not here any more, the conversation it would be by far more interesting.
 
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#654 ·
Stormfirebird said:
You don't have numbers that apply to this situation.
Given the selection of sources you posted I would not assume for the benefit to scale that linearly.
Is there an impact? Probably, what I'm saying is that people don't seem to care even at the highest level, especially in CS.
Heck why do people even use mice from finalmouse where you get 500Hz with most(?) models?
Click to expand...
No, i dont have the numbers for 2ms system latency, which it all adds to, but we have numbers for 8, where its a huge difference, where logic follows that 2 is -not- a negilible amount.
People dont care because they dont know, same deal as with audio.
Also people prefer comfort over pure performance in most cases too, which is fine, that does not change that it matters though.

Cool, you like wireless mice, thats nice, that is not going to change that they are techinically worse than wired for latency.
Do you perform worse/better with that wireless mouse?, well one can always argue that the presense of a wire hinders your play or not - but that is unrelated to the sensor movement latency and related to physically moving the mouse instead
 
#655 · (Edited)
I did some background check of PixArt Imaging Inc. (by my way), they are huge and not toy makers.
They have another five customers for their PMW3389DM-T3QU sensor.

The sensor alone this is nothing, only with the very special lens and with proprietary algorithms, the miracle gets life.
But this is not all, it appears that only Microsoft paid attention so to offer at their software, control of all sensor features, and of the most priceless one that is custom calibration.

The unlucky consumers they do write such of full of pain blog posts. (click on the blog post they are important pictures)


All consumers they fall victims of uneducated Product Review Gurus, not in a single review of the many, some one touched the damn manual calibration setting.
The value of such reviews? a BIG Zero.

I did some background check of Logitech too, the magical Hero sensor it is made somewhere in unknown factory and location.
And Logitech USA brags that they are the designers of such technology, by having a wooden table and few step motors as High-Tech test bed. 🤣

I have flamed Microsoft in recent years for all their tablet PC looking operating systems (Win 8.1 and later), but in this case they did excellent work at Mouse and Keyboard Center.

Summer time in Greece and my refund from the returned Logitech products full of defects, this approved with delay, I will pick-up the Microsoft goods on Tuesday.






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Just for laughs .... Logitech R&D American center .... 😂

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#656 ·
kiriakos said:
On top of mouse sensor latency, it is a bad idea to add further more latency of the wireless system.
For the same reason my PC this is connected to LAN due cable and not with my Router WiFi.
Click to expand...
I can see the light reflecting off your tinfoil helmet.

Either is fine. Wi-Fi namely suffers from bad implementation, expecting too much from an all in one, and zero optimization on the user's end. Wireless mice take care of most of that, and henceforth have been more than adequate and even beating out certain wired mice in terms of motion delay.
 
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#657 ·
SmashTV said:
I can see the light reflecting off your tinfoil helmet.

Either is fine. Wi-Fi namely suffers from bad implementation, expecting too much from an all in one, and zero optimization on the user's end. Wireless mice take care of most of that, and henceforth have been more than adequate and even beating out certain wired mice in terms of motion delay.
Click to expand...
My helmet its a gift from NASA.
If and when a wireless mouse this beating out wired solutions, this is because they was made in Shenzhen with 100% Chinese R&D ( Kids playing with old ATmega).
High CPI (in count) sensors they deliver burst of data and require high and stable bandwidth, and its wise such a mouse to be connected directly over the motherboard, and external USB hub to be avoided.
 
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#658 ·
THE RETURN at the Civilized domain of our planet !!! :cool::love::giggle:

Topics of interest due pictures.
1) Pro IntelliMouse calibrated !!
2) Unboxing
3) RTFM

Final thoughts in a later time.

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#659 ·
My benchmark this is EA Battlefield V (five), this thing its powerful enough to kill any PC system with weak power supply.
I did mouse calibration at 1300 dpi and using 1300 dpi at desktop and at gaming.
Adobe Photoshop this is a very good benchmark about if your mouse this is truly usable... and the mouse did pass this test with flags waving and drums playing songs.

At Battlefield V, you are a user of several army gear, anti-aircraft machine-gun, this is requiring top mouse performance, or else you will end up with a bomb as hat.
I did shoot down many today, and the mouse never ever quit on me, or even had a moment of hesitation due CPU load, and or game scene overloaded by graphics and or a driver issue.

Intellimouse Pro, this has internal programmable chip with it own hard-drive :) (SSD one) LOL, all settings as dpi and or calibration and even the selection of tail light color, all they are permanently stored and retained even if the computer this is powered off.

There is no need to load the Mouse-Keyboard-Center app (at system start up), and therefore there is no active waste of system memory, as it happens with Logitech and or Corsair software, which if this is not loaded? then the hardware does not know of what settings to use. :oops:

Instead of more pictures, I will end the summary with a song for people of my age. :cool:







 
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