Overclock.net banner
1 - 20 of 38 Posts

Bapt33

· Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi,

actually with bdie ram 3600 15 15 15 30 45 TRFC 315.
this set show error around 40°C in TM5.
no error when around 38°C.

I would like increase this temp treshold cause i cant keep my dimms under 40°C in summer.

I remember someone told me here increase TRFC increase also the temp treshold for stability.

Is there any other way? any timings to lose to increase this treshold?

thx
 
Discussion starter · #3 · (Edited)
It is much easier to get better airfow over ram modules.

Anyhow, i doubt that bdie or any ram is unstable bcs of 40c temp. Maybe at 50c+
if i ask its because i cant get better airflow, and no, many user have error around 42°C with bdie, there is no general rule each ram have different behaviour.

EDIT : i let you look this thread, does tight timing are more affected by heat than loosen...
message #6, bdie user report error when temp go above 32°C, far away from 50°C ...
 
Hi,

actually with bdie ram 3600 15 15 15 30 45 TRFC 315.
this set show error around 40°C in TM5.
no error when around 38°C.

I would like increase this temp treshold cause i cant keep my dimms under 40°C in summer.

I remember someone told me here increase TRFC increase also the temp treshold for stability.

Is there any other way? any timings to lose to increase this treshold?

thx
Hi,
315 is about the lowest I've seen 340-350 seems the norm on dual channel boards with maxing out DRAM Refresh Interval

I'd just add a fan over the dimms to cool them better.
 
people say they've abducted by aliens too, if your RAM errors "when it goes above 32C" then it's not stable. the air inside of your case is probably ~32c.

sub-300 at 3600 is common, not sure what ^he's^ on about. when I was playing with two DIMMs @ 4133 I was at 285 and the B-Die in my NAS is at 250 IIRC at 3733.

2470191
 
Hi,
If you could read I said it is about the lowest I've seen lol
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
people say they've abducted by aliens too, if your RAM errors "when it goes above 32C" then it's not stable. the air inside of your case is probably ~32c.

sub-300 at 3600 is common, not sure what ^he's^ on about. when I was playing with two DIMMs @ 4133 I was at 285 and the B-Die in my NAS is at 250 IIRC at 3733.

View attachment 2470191
the 32°C issue wasnt from my personal experience, just quoted a post on a old thread.
and even with good airflow in summer its very hot sometimes ambiant air could be around 40°C in my country.

thats why im looking for a trick to increase this treshold, dont know if increase TRFC could help.
@Veii recommended +1 on TRDWR or increasing TRP reduce needed voltage then reduce heat.
but not sure if timings affect the treshold temp.
 
Hi,
Voltage usually dictates heat.
 
the 32°C issue wasnt from my personal experience, just quoted a post on a old thread.
and even with good airflow in summer its very hot sometimes ambiant air could be around 40°C in my country.

thats why im looking for a trick to increase this treshold, dont know if increase TRFC could help.
@Veii recommended +1 on TRDWR or increasing TRP reduce needed voltage then reduce heat.
but not sure if timings affect the treshold temp.
there's no magic bullet timing that singularly leads to a lower temp threshold.

tighter timings = less likely to be stable. if your RAM is that sensitive to temperature (doubt it), then start by loosening the ones that are tighter than usual on similar kits. If you can't figure that out (or it's too tedious) then loosen all of them and work your way back to what you're at now and test inbetween.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
there's no magic bullet timing that singularly leads to a lower temp threshold.

tighter timings = less likely to be stable. if your RAM is that sensitive to temperature (doubt it), then start by loosening the ones that are tighter than usual on similar kits. If you can't figure that out (or it's too tedious) then loosen all of them and work your way back to what you're at now and test inbetween.
why doubt? its usual to see bdie error around 42°C, so its not anormal to me.

passed again TM5 20 cycle 1usmus profile, max temp 38°C and no error, i always get error around 41°C
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Hi,
Voltage usually dictates heat.
right, then its more loosen timing need less voltage then less heat, treshold is what it is and stay the same, but needed voltage can be adjusted and i think ive to work on that.
 
  • Rep+
Reactions: ThrashZone
the 32°C issue wasnt from my personal experience, just quoted a post on a old thread.
and even with good airflow in summer its very hot sometimes ambiant air could be around 40°C in my country.

thats why im looking for a trick to increase this treshold, dont know if increase TRFC could help.
@Veii recommended +1 on TRDWR or increasing TRP reduce needed voltage then reduce heat.
but not sure if timings affect the treshold temp.
tRP ~ row precharge time.
The minimum number of clock cycles required between issuing the precharge command and opening the next row. The time to read the first bit of memory from a DRAM with the wrong row open is tRP + tRCD + CL.”

If the wrong row is open (“page miss”), it needs to be closed (precharged), then the next needs to be opened, then the column within the row needs to be accessed. This therefore takes tRP + tRCD + CL time
Same as tRC
The minimum time interval between successive ACTIVE commands to the same bank is defined by tRC.
Every ROW ACTivate command needs it's corresponding PRE charge command
tRFC goes together with that row of 3 (well usually also tRTP but let's ingore that)

Voltage isn't kept indefinitely. You lose charge
And more voltage is sometimes needed to cover shorter burst operations ~ lower timings
In a purely logical sense, slower timings might recharge slower, but are also discharged slower.
Which also logically need a slower tRFC (Timing~Row Refresh Cycle).
The same goes for tRP ~ this one is unique on it's own and very flexible.

Heat will discharge DRAM faster ~ soo your unified answer would be "lower temps"
And as heat increases, soo does also voltage leakage and charge "loss"
It's combatable with simply a longer time to (p)recharge and just simply slower timings
It's also combatable with fluid transitions, soo no charge is wasted anywhere (looking at tRC=tRAS+tRP)

While tRC is flexible , tRAS is not
Row Active Time:
tRAS is the number of clock cycles taken between a bank active command and issuing the precharge command.
Pretty much increasing tRP will fix your issue,or wasting cycles on tRC (increasing it) will also hide "corpses" (of bad timings)
But it's more inteligent to work on the root of the issue = transition delay

Slowing down the cycles by tRRD_ and tWTR_ between rows and collums, and so it's corresponding tFAW
(Intel Naming= tRRDR & tRRDD)
Already does the most difference between instability and stability ~ as long as remain transitions are clean

But if you for example take the easier cheating route and just let everything pile up and wait till tRC finally zZZ is over
Well you might hide corpses,
but your latency will show it and your stability & performance will be . . . how do i say it ~ "variable" :)

EDIT:
Just increasing tRCD also does fix your problems, but that's i guess not the question. By using simply slower timings

At the end it's quite simple:
Instability between timing-transition comes from loss of charge.
Loss of charge is fixed by more charge
Loss of charge happens faster by higher heat
Higher heat-generations happens with higher voltage 🤭
 
Just to clarify, my experience with 32C instability was from an extremely tight benching profile that had a fan blowing 24C air directly on the sticks (just an anecdote to show temperature stability thresholds get really low on Samsung B-Die). My sticks are 3400 CL16 so I imagine it has a fair amount of defects compared to a better bin. I haven't tried to find the thermal limits of my current daily profile; but I deliberately kept tRFC and tREFI loose (400 and 25000 respectively) and haven't had any errors during stress tests despite my sticks reaching 40C.
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Just to clarify, my experience with 32C instability was from an extremely tight benching profile that had a fan blowing 24C air directly on the sticks (just an anecdote to show temperature stability thresholds get really low on Samsung B-Die). My sticks are 3400 CL16 so I imagine it has a fair amount of defects compared to a better bin. I haven't tried to find the thermal limits of my current daily profile; but I deliberately kept tRFC and tREFI loose (400 and 25000 respectively) and haven't had any errors during stress tests despite my sticks reaching 40C.
40°C is not very high, if temp was around 45°C it could talk more
 
right, then its more loosen timing need less voltage then less heat, treshold is what it is and stay the same, but needed voltage can be adjusted and i think ive to work on that.
Hi,
Lower CL needs more voltage so example if using c15 timings maybe switch to c16 timings.
 
You could buy a RAM fan. They do work. The Corsair Vengeance one is around $30 and works for more than just their own kits, due to the high profile.

I managed to push my kit a lot further after installing the fan myself. Pretty significant difference from ambient cooling.
 
  • Rep+
Reactions: ThrashZone
Discussion starter · #17 ·
You could buy a RAM fan. They do work. The Corsair Vengeance one is around $30 and works for more than just their own kits, due to the high profile.

I managed to push my kit a lot further after installing the fan myself. Pretty significant difference from ambient cooling.
yes i will go for that. i have a 70mm fan but no clue how i could fix it to the stick, maybe look for those aliexpress ram cooler seems good stuff
 
yes i will go for that. i have a 70mm fan but no clue how i could fix it to the stick, maybe look for those aliexpress ram cooler seems good stuff
Hi,
Stiff wire and zip-ties work well :)
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
Hi,
Stiff wire and zip-ties work well :)
hard to find a part around the ram with a hole to fix zip-ties, those corsair rgb fan seems dope, but the price is dope too :cry:
 
Hi,
Post an image of the build there's usually places to snag a 12g wire onto :)
I got some 90mm noctua fans for vrm at one time before I got a vrm water block.
2470210
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts