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Samsung 970 Evo Plus vs. Seagate FireCuda 520 but both in Intel PCIe 3.0 slot?

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4EvrYng

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I am trying to decide between Samsung 970 Evo Plus vs. Seagate FireCuda 520 for my new build. Build uses Intel X299 motherboard so “winner” will run in PCIe 3.0 slot, advantages of 4.0’s higher bandwidth for sequential throughput will not be a deciding factor.

What matters to me is how they would stack up in such layout in random access, especially at lower queue depth and thread count. Does anybody have such benchmark info, please?
 
#2 ·
Hi,
Maybe some of this might address a couple inquiries you have about 970 evo plus 500gb

Image
 
#3 ·
4EvrYng said:
I am trying to decide between Samsung 970 Evo Plus vs. Seagate FireCuda 520 for my new build. Build uses Intel X299 motherboard so “winner” will run in PCIe 3.0 slot, advantages of 4.0’s higher bandwidth for sequential throughput will not be a deciding factor.

What matters to me is how they would stack up in such layout in random access, especially at lower queue depth and thread count. Does anybody have such benchmark info, please?
Click to expand...
From what I can tell from some reviews, the Firecuda 520 1TB is better than the 970 EVO Plus 1TB in almost every category except sustained writes, if you're planning to do 300GB+ sustained writes often, the 970 EP is probably a better choice.
 
#4 ·
#5 ·
Factor in please also also other possible "brand names" :)
Ones with Phison PS5012-E12 8 channel controllers for example
Up to location the Viper VPN100 would be a cheap but good option
Sometimes WD Blacks are cheap, well focus on the controller more ~ instead of the brand name
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Gilles3000 said:
From what I can tell from some reviews, the Firecuda 520 1TB is better than the 970 EVO Plus 1TB in almost every category except sustained writes, if you're planning to do 300GB+ sustained writes often, the 970 EP is probably a better choice.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen any review that compared them both in PCIe 3.0 slot. Are you aware of any?
 
#7 · (Edited)
4EvrYng said:
I haven't seen any review that compared them both in PCIe 3.0 slot. Are you aware of any?
Click to expand...
NVMe M.2 on modern mobos is PCIe3x4 and on latest AMD its PCIe4x4. On older it's PCIe2x2.

No idea why you need a test with an adapter into a PCIe slot when M.2 NVMe are the same really.
I have a list from last year's E12 controller that has most of the drives with that controller and similar memory chips, by now there are about 2 variants, older and newer but probably quite comparable performance if not better on the newer.
Stuff like Samsung and that Firecuda will be insanely priced quite often. Why are you even looking at a Firecuda 520 which is PCIe4x4 and you will use PCI3x4, look at 510 which is exactly that overpriced E12 drive because Seagate SSDs... you pay for the brand name same as with Samsung but Samsung at least tends to make their own custom SSDs that no one else resells.

For most uses it doesn't matter if you have SATA, 3x4 or 4x4 SSD. For copying large files and large volumes of data yes the bandwidth and sustained long term write matters. There are comparisons on Tom'sHW I think for the long full drive writes where you can see how each controller is handling it and what the speeds drop to and when, how long it takes to fill the drive in one go, this is where QLC drives get demolished and TLC are kind of usable but not overly fast.

If you want some crazy performing SSD they need to go away from retail for home use SSDs and instead look for Intel SSDs for enterprise and those tend to be I think U.2 or SAS etc. need special cable to connect to regular for home motherboards, etc. Those can handle a lot of load at once, large capacities, thick 2.5" heatsinked and so on. Price? High, even used it's quite high.

The prices for SSDs right now seem high to me, as in 25% more expensive than last summer for example. Lowest were around xmas it seems and it's going up and up since then and considering the current SARS pandemic thanks to China and Italy's too late handling of the situation the prices are unlikely to go down again before next xmas.
 
#8 ·
JackCY said:
The prices for SSDs right now seem high to me, as in 25% more expensive than last summer for example. Lowest were around xmas it seems and it's going up and up since then and considering the current SARS pandemic thanks to China and Italy's too late handling of the situation the prices are unlikely to go down again before next xmas.
Click to expand...
Yep, pretty lucky that I bought my E12 drive when they were at their lowest, sure looks like prices for SSD's/RAM are going to suck for quite a while.
 
#9 ·
4EvrYng said:
I am trying to decide between Samsung 970 Evo Plus vs. Seagate FireCuda 520 for my new build. Build uses Intel X299 motherboard so “winner” will run in PCIe 3.0 slot, advantages of 4.0’s higher bandwidth for sequential throughput will not be a deciding factor.

What matters to me is how they would stack up in such layout in random access, especially at lower queue depth and thread count. Does anybody have such benchmark info, please?
Click to expand...

Evo plus will beat the Seagate in low QD random.
Silicon motion SM2262EN based devices (Adata XPG SX8200Pro and HP EX950) were the class leader (short of Optane SSD's) in 4k random read. They'll beat all Phison E12 mentioned, and even Samsung devices up to and including 970 evo non plus, and 970 pro. I didn't even realize until you mentioned it, and I looked it up, but the Evo plus has actually closed the gap, and not only matches the Silicon motion based devices, but actually beats them ever so slightly in 4K random read, albeit only by a couple 1-3% but for 40% more money.
https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compa...ung-970-Evo-Plus-NVMe-PCIe-M2-2TB-vs-HP-EX950-NVMe-PCIe-M2-2TB/m798635vsm710813

The Silicon Motion devices still hold the crown for value though if low QD random read is important. They are basically tied to the Evo plus in low QD 4K random read, for significantly cheaper.
If cost is at all a factor in your consideration, I would go for one of the Silicon motion devices mentioned. If cost is no issue whatsoever, don't spend extra money for the same exact performance. You might as well get something for your extra cash and go for the best, which would be Optane 900p and 905p. Easily 3-5x faster than the best NAND based NVME (970 Evo Plus) in low QD 4K random read. Many people claim that this sort of low QD performance is not discern-able in real world use, but disagree. As you probably know as well (based on your post) 4K Random read at QD1T1 is the benchmark that real world scenarios benefit from the most. I can tell you without a doubt from personal experience, it makes a real difference. Systems are much snappier in every way.

They are not cheap though, and sadly I am not rich. So even with a killer deal my 900p is only the 280GB model, which can be had for a little over $200 these days if you look around. Not huge, but has all the performance of the much more expensive models even when crammed full. It makes for a great boot drive for those who cannot afford the much more expensive 480GB 900p (~$500) or larger 905p (up to and over $1000 when talking about the 1-1.5TB models)

280GB model is perfect for an OS, mission critical software, and maybe 1 game or 2 you are actively playing. Accompanied of course by a 1-2TB SM2262EN based HP EX950 or SX8200pro for the rest of your games, files, and large programs that might not fit on your primo drive real-estate but you still want fast access to. You can also use a chunk of that primo drive real-estate say 60 or 80GB as a massive cache for your other drive(s) at the same time, which will make them perform better as well.
But then again if money is no object then why settle for 280GB. If that is the case get the 480GB 900p or a 905p in 960GB or 1.5TB
 
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Discussion starter · #10 ·
ctrnull said:
Evo plus will beat the Seagate in low QD random.
Silicon motion SM2262EN based devices (Adata XPG SX8200Pro and HP EX950) were the class leader (short of Optane SSD's) in 4k random read. They'll beat all Phison E12 mentioned, and even Samsung devices up to and including 970 evo non plus, and 970 pro. I didn't even realize until you mentioned it, and I looked it up, but the Evo plus has actually closed the gap, and not only matches the Silicon motion based devices, but actually beats them ever so slightly in 4K random read, albeit only by a couple 1-3% but for 40% more money.
https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compa...ung-970-Evo-Plus-NVMe-PCIe-M2-2TB-vs-HP-EX950-NVMe-PCIe-M2-2TB/m798635vsm710813

The Silicon Motion devices still hold the crown for value though if low QD random read is important. They are basically tied to the Evo plus in low QD 4K random read, for significantly cheaper.
If cost is at all a factor in your consideration, I would go for one of the Silicon motion devices mentioned. If cost is no issue whatsoever, don't spend extra money for the same exact performance. You might as well get something for your extra cash and go for the best, which would be Optane 900p and 905p. Easily 3-5x faster than the best NAND based NVME (970 Evo Plus) in low QD 4K random read. Many people claim that this sort of low QD performance is not discern-able in real world use, but disagree. As you probably know as well (based on your post) 4K Random read at QD1T1 is the benchmark that real world scenarios benefit from the most. I can tell you without a doubt from personal experience, it makes a real difference. Systems are much snappier in every way.

They are not cheap though, and sadly I am not rich. So even with a killer deal my 900p is only the 280GB model, which can be had for a little over $200 these days if you look around. Not huge, but has all the performance of the much more expensive models even when crammed full. It makes for a great boot drive for those who cannot afford the much more expensive 480GB 900p (~$500) or larger 905p (up to and over $1000 when talking about the 1-1.5TB models)

280GB model is perfect for an OS, mission critical software, and maybe 1 game or 2 you are actively playing. Accompanied of course by a 1-2TB SM2262EN based HP EX950 or SX8200pro for the rest of your games, files, and large programs that might not fit on your primo drive real-estate but you still want fast access to. You can also use a chunk of that primo drive real-estate say 60 or 80GB as a massive cache for your other drive(s) at the same time, which will make them perform better as well.
But then again if money is no object then why settle for 280GB. If that is the case get the 480GB 900p or a 905p in 960GB or 1.5TB
Click to expand...

Thank you for elaborate reply, you gave me a lot to think about. While geek side of me is very attracted to 905P pragmatic side of me is cringing when I look at it. At the capacity I need I would be looking at their biggest, most expensive, model so even if I could somehow manage to squeeze it cost wise I would have to think real real real hard would my workloads justify it. As things stand they wouldn’t, not even close.

So I am considering (much) less expensive compromise:

1. 970 Evo Plus dedicated to boot, Windows and Program Files

2. Two NVMes in Win10 stripe RAID for work that requires good I/O.

When it comes to NVMEs in RAID, yes, I inquired about low thread counts and queue depths but that is not the only thing that matters to me. Sustained speeds in both sequential and random also play important role for me.

So I also need to figure out answers on:

1. Would striped Evo+ be good enough sustained wise or I need to look at 970 Pro? And if I go for Pro what I would be missing about Evo+?

2. If Evo+ would be good enough which model I should go for, 1TB or 2TB? Lower total cost of 1TB one is attractive but will TurboWrite of two of them combined result in enough sustained ability that 2 TB would be an overkill?

This is impossible to answer without actually using them but I would still appreciate your thoughts. In the meantime do you happen to have any info, please, what would be disadvantages of 1TB Evo+ over 2TB one?
 
#11 ·
Interesting, what are your workloads?

Here's my review on the Seagate FireCuda 520 that has the Samsung 970 EVO Plus pinned against it at 1TB. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seagate-firecuda-520-ssd/2
I have 2TB results of the Patriot Viper VP4100 (gen4 - same drive as the FireCuda 520) vs the 970 EVO Plus on this article. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/patriot-viper-vpr100-m2-nvme-ssd/2

Results are on the same X570 system with all drives at 50% full running as an OS drive with the latest Win 10. Unfortunately, no FireCuda 520 at gen 3. I can maybe do some other testing if I get some time.
 
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#12 ·
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#13 ·
StAndrew said:
If you cool your NAND flash below 45-55*, your SSD lifespan is reduced when your NAND conducts cold writes.
Click to expand...
Hi,
Magician says temps normal
Warranty say 5 years :)
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Sean Webster said:
Here's my review on the Seagate FireCuda 520 that has the Samsung 970 EVO Plus pinned against it at 1TB. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seagate-firecuda-520-ssd/2
I have 2TB results of the Patriot Viper VP4100 (gen4 - same drive as the FireCuda 520) vs the 970 EVO Plus on this article. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/patriot-viper-vpr100-m2-nvme-ssd/2

Results are on the same X570 system with all drives at 50% full running as an OS drive with the latest Win 10. Unfortunately, no FireCuda 520 at gen 3. I can maybe do some other testing if I get some time.
Click to expand...
Thank you!!!
 
#15 ·
4EvrYng said:
While geek side of me is very attracted to 905P pragmatic side of me is cringing when I look at it.
So I am considering (much) less expensive compromise:

1. 970 Evo Plus dedicated to boot, Windows and Program Files

2. Two NVMes in Win10 stripe RAID for work that requires good I/O.

1. Would striped Evo+ be good enough sustained wise or I need to look at 970 Pro? And if I go for Pro what I would be missing about Evo+?

2. If Evo+ would be good enough which model I should go for, 1TB or 2TB? Lower total cost of 1TB one is attractive but will TurboWrite of two of them combined result in enough sustained ability that 2 TB would be an overkill?
Click to expand...
You are missing my main point. The Evo plus is a over expensive model that barely meets/beats SMI drives, which are ~$250 for 2TB and $140 for 1TB with performance within 1%. Evo+ is $220+ for 1tb and nearly $500 for 2TB. Sequential speeds are going to be fast enough and very close to the Evo plus. You could get a 970 Evo non plus for similar (hopefully) price to the SMI's but those have lower speeds.

Like I said, if you want to spend extra money for the best, get a 280GB Optane 900p for about $190, and a 1 or 2 tb HP ex950 or Adata SX8200Pro like I did. So you get the performance of Optane 900/905p plus and over 2TB for less than the cost of a 2TB Evo Plus.
If you only go for the 1TB m.2 drive and the Optane your only at $350.
My point I was trying to make super clear is if you are going to spend extra money on something "better" don't spend that money on something that's not really better, or only better by 1%. That is what you will get with Evo Plus.
If you have an extreme need for large capacity with extremely consistent constant daily full drive writes all the time, you may consider the 970 pro as you mentioned, but that is more for servers and such. It has very consistent performance due to MLC NAND, which is almost unheard of anymore, but it is still significantly slower than Optane. Optane will beat even the 970 Pro in steady state tests, just smaller size, if your not spending $1000.
But a 1TB 970 Pro will cost you $350, and AFAIK 2tb Pro is not available, although if it was it would be like $700
So there again for the price of 1TB of 970 Pro you can have an Optane boot drive, and a 1TB storage drive (which actually outperforms 970 pro in most tests besides steady state, which is not a consumer workload, and really only necessary for database servers and such.
Just take a look at the Optane vs 970 Pro benchmarks:
https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compa...00P-Optane-NVMe-PCIe-280GB-vs-Samsung-970-Pro-NVMe-PCIe-M2-1TB/m315555vsm497261

And the 970 pro vs HP EX950:
https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compa.../HP-EX950-NVMe-PCIe-M2-2TB-vs-Samsung-970-Pro-NVMe-PCIe-M2-1TB/m710813vsm497261

And the 970 Evo Plus vs Ex950, which does have one or 2 winning marks, but very close performance in real world for consumer workloads.
Good luck with your build! If you have any other questions on any of this don't hesitate to ask!
 
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#17 ·
@4EvrYngSorry if that came across rude, I did not mean it that way at all. I was just trying to make sure you understood that you can indeed have both the insane performance of Optane as boot drive, plus 1-2tb of capacity at basically the same performance as Evo plus, for around the same money as a 2tb Evo Plus. As it sounded like you were considering the high performance Optane options, but totally offset by the $1000-1500 cost of a 905p of sufficient capacity. 280GB 900p's are getting cheaper all the time, especially as more PCIE4 SSD's come out, and with 2nd Gen Optane 3DXpoint on the horizon, albeit delayed due to COVID-19 even more so. You can count on under $1/GB all day long. But if you keep an eye on auctions like I did, you can likely get one as low as $0.60/GB or less with some crafty bidding, on the right auction.

Good luck with your upgrades!
 
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Discussion starter · #18 ·
ctrnull said:
@4EvrYngSorry if that came across rude, I did not mean it that way at all. I was just trying to make sure you understood ...
Click to expand...
Nothing to worry about and apologize for, you were very polite and helpful, you truly gave me a lot to think about and I'm finding it is good that you did, thank you :) In the end I might end up with at least some Optane, just not the way you suggested. If that is OK with you I will PM you separately for your opinion on few SSD questions that would be off-topic for this thread
 
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